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When Vaccine Apathy, Not Hesitancy, Drives Vaccine Disinterest

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Re: When Vaccine Apathy, Not Hesitancy, Drives Vaccine Disinterest

#31

Post by BJBBB »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #24
TheParkShark wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same applies to obesity in your opinion? The risks are very well known but people don’t do enough to prevent it and take care of themselves. Should obese people not relieve medical care due to their negligence and unwillingness to eat less?

> Same applies to obesity in your opinion? Of course not. We don’t understand how to prevent obesity. And losing weight—or keeping it off—involves more than visiting a Walgreens. Also, if you’re obese, you’re suffering the effects of obesity all the time. If you’re unvaccinated, you are fine 99% of the time. If you stay home as much as possible, wear a mask outdoors and avoid large gatherings, you’re likely to contin…

"We don't understand how to prevent obesity."

Please reference below:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25196414/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3606061/

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/obesity-prevention-source/obesi...

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseas...

https://effectivehealthcare.ahrq.gov/products/obesity-resear...

Re: When Vaccine Apathy, Not Hesitancy, Drives Vaccine Disinterest

#32

Post by NikolaeVarius »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #24
TheParkShark wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same applies to obesity in your opinion? The risks are very well known but people don’t do enough to prevent it and take care of themselves. Should obese people not relieve medical care due to their negligence and unwillingness to eat less?

> Same applies to obesity in your opinion? Of course not. We don’t understand how to prevent obesity. And losing weight—or keeping it off—involves more than visiting a Walgreens. Also, if you’re obese, you’re suffering the effects of obesity all the time. If you’re unvaccinated, you are fine 99% of the time. If you stay home as much as possible, wear a mask outdoors and avoid large gatherings, you’re likely to contin…

Losing weight == eating less. Not rocket science

Re: When Vaccine Apathy, Not Hesitancy, Drives Vaccine Disinterest

#33

Post by shrimp_emoji »

smt88 wrote: post #13
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #9

99.5% of those dying from Covid in America are unvaccinated. 99.5%. At a certain point, I don’t know what to say, but the train has to leave the station. If you choose to run around unvaccinated and get Covid, the rest of us shouldn’t have to (a) shut down our lives or (b) pay tax dollars to save you if you end up in the hospital or dealing with the costs of long Covid. (See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stupid_Moto…

The problem is that you can't differentiate between "stupid" and "justifiably ignorant" or just "scarred by history". Black people were literally experimented on under the guise of vaccination programs. They have no reason to believe that isn't going to happen again. And then you just have millions of people who don't know basic biology or medicine, and vaccines are no more fathomable than magic. Add lots of misinfo…

>They have no reason to believe that isn't going to happen again.

Come on.

In this case, too, anti-vaxxerism is due to a lack of education.

Whatever we do, we need to improve education, or we're going to continue paying for the consequences of not having enough of it.

Re: When Vaccine Apathy, Not Hesitancy, Drives Vaccine Disinterest

#34

Post by JumpCrisscross »

BJBBB wrote: post #31
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Same applies to obesity in your opinion? Of course not. We don’t understand how to prevent obesity. And losing weight—or keeping it off—involves more than visiting a Walgreens. Also, if you’re obese, you’re suffering the effects of obesity all the time. If you’re unvaccinated, you are fine 99% of the time. If you stay home as much as possible, wear a mask outdoors and avoid large gatherings, you’re likely to contin…

"We don't understand how to prevent obesity." Please reference below: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25196414/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3606061/ https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/obesity-prevention-source/obesi... https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseas... https://effectivehealthcare.ahrq.gov/products/obesity-resear...

Read your first link. Literally, from the abstract:

“The evidence base is limited in quantity and quality and insufficient to provide clear guidance“ [1].

The entire paper is about the “major evidence gaps.”

[1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25196414/

Re: When Vaccine Apathy, Not Hesitancy, Drives Vaccine Disinterest

#35

Post by JumpCrisscross »

postoak wrote: post #27
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Black people were literally experimented on under the guise of vaccination programs. They have no reason to believe that isn't going to happen again. This is the only sympathetic group out of the bunch. (Lots of people are ignorant of a lot of things for lots of reasons, sometimes at great cost. Those costs are generally theirs to carry.) Practically, however, that sympathy has limits. Should we shut down New York…

Although I think covid vaccine hesitancy is dumb at this point (yet don't think you can punish hesitant people) - Why should only those groups be hesitant? Anyone who can read history can see that happened even if it didn't affect their relatives. The government isn't known for being very effective or trustworthy lately, why should people think their incompetence/malice should be limited to those groups? Plenty of pe…

> Why should only those groups be hesitant?

They shouldn’t. But there is daylight between the government having done something unfavourable to a group you identify with and it having abused the specific thing you’re being asked to do (saying you’re being vaccinated while administering a disease).

I agree the precedent exists for all Americans. That’s scary. But “the government has done bad things” isn’t a valid excuse for ignoring the other evidence. (I don’t give Black Americans a free pass on non-vaccination. I just sympathise with the hesitance.)

Re: When Vaccine Apathy, Not Hesitancy, Drives Vaccine Disinterest

#36

Post by jasonlaramburu »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #9

99.5% of those dying from Covid in America are unvaccinated. 99.5%. At a certain point, I don’t know what to say, but the train has to leave the station. If you choose to run around unvaccinated and get Covid, the rest of us shouldn’t have to (a) shut down our lives or (b) pay tax dollars to save you if you end up in the hospital or dealing with the costs of long Covid. (See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stupid_Moto…

A big problem is parents with young children (who cannot get vaccinated). Even if the risk to kids is relatively low, it is still non-zero and increased by the ignorant behavior of a few adults.

Re: When Vaccine Apathy, Not Hesitancy, Drives Vaccine Disinterest

#37

Post by BJBBB »

Anecdotal, but they are data points.

1. Co-worker, apparently healthy cauc make age 43, received Pfizer vaccine, contracted covid approx 33 days after 2d dose. Was in hospital for 3 weeks and has had various problems for several months.

2. Neighbor's kid, very fit (volleyball, track) hispanic female age 16, received Pfizer vaccine, has had joint problems, headaches, dizziness, and other symptoms since being vaccinated.

3. Myself, cranky geezer of dubious health and doubtful usefulness male age 64, received Janssen vaccine and approx 19-20 days later had mild symptoms that were originally believed to be a cold but later tested as covid positive, and still feel normal and cranky.

So from my little world, the only observed efficacy is the national and global statistics on covid spread and prevention per vaccinations. Your mileage may vary.

Re: When Vaccine Apathy, Not Hesitancy, Drives Vaccine Disinterest

#38

Post by jasonlaramburu »

TheParkShark wrote: post #21
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #9

99.5% of those dying from Covid in America are unvaccinated. 99.5%. At a certain point, I don’t know what to say, but the train has to leave the station. If you choose to run around unvaccinated and get Covid, the rest of us shouldn’t have to (a) shut down our lives or (b) pay tax dollars to save you if you end up in the hospital or dealing with the costs of long Covid. (See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stupid_Moto…

Same applies to obesity in your opinion? The risks are very well known but people don’t do enough to prevent it and take care of themselves. Should obese people not relieve medical care due to their negligence and unwillingness to eat less?

Obese people cannot infect others.

Re: When Vaccine Apathy, Not Hesitancy, Drives Vaccine Disinterest

#39

Post by postoak »

NikolaeVarius wrote: post #32
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Same applies to obesity in your opinion? Of course not. We don’t understand how to prevent obesity. And losing weight—or keeping it off—involves more than visiting a Walgreens. Also, if you’re obese, you’re suffering the effects of obesity all the time. If you’re unvaccinated, you are fine 99% of the time. If you stay home as much as possible, wear a mask outdoors and avoid large gatherings, you’re likely to contin…

Losing weight == eating less. Not rocket science

Humans evolved to allow hunger to override the rational thinking part of the brain. The older parts of the brain can basically shut off the newer (logical thinking) parts. So even if you know you have to eat less to lose weight, often if food is available you won't be able to resist it if you are really hungry. Your statement is wrong, it is more complicated than that because we are hardwired to not starve if food is available.

Re: When Vaccine Apathy, Not Hesitancy, Drives Vaccine Disinterest

#40

Post by guilhas »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #9

99.5% of those dying from Covid in America are unvaccinated. 99.5%. At a certain point, I don’t know what to say, but the train has to leave the station. If you choose to run around unvaccinated and get Covid, the rest of us shouldn’t have to (a) shut down our lives or (b) pay tax dollars to save you if you end up in the hospital or dealing with the costs of long Covid. (See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stupid_Moto…

In UK more than 50% of deaths are vaccinated
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