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'No One Is Safe': How the Heatwave Has Battered the Wealthy World

nytimes.com

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Re: 'No One Is Safe': How the Heatwave Has Battered the Wealthy World

#21

Post by aclelland »

nprateem wrote: post #2

Maybe they'll finally start to do something about it then.

Unfortunately, it seems like individuals will start spending more money on cooling solutions (air con, insulation). Local government will spend more on wildfire prevention (fewer trees, more housing restrictions) and national governments will continue to promise they'll ban X, Y and Z in 10-15 years (when they'll not be in power or will have quietly dropped the promise in the next election).

I hope I'm wrong but living in the UK, I really don't see how we get from where we are now to somewhere sustainable fast enough to make any sort of difference.

Re: 'No One Is Safe': How the Heatwave Has Battered the Wealthy World

#22

Post by mandmandam »

mschuster91 wrote: post #16
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #12

One of the issues with anything that makes money, is that it encourages a “race to make a pile.” People want to make as big a pile of money as possible, as quickly as they can, with the idea that the pile will be big enough to allow them (and just them) to be secure for the rest of their (and just their) lives. That attitude runs directly counter to the long-term planning, and sacrifice for the greater good, that is…

> People want to make as big a pile of money as possible, as quickly as they can, with the idea that the pile will be big enough to allow them (and just them) to be secure for the rest of their (and just their) lives. In a society as cut-throat capitalist as the US, yes. In "welfare states" such as Europe, where everyone has their basic needs in life (housing, healthcare and food) at least somewhat met, this desire i…

You are right, though I don't know if you'll cut through the cognitive dissonance.

Still though, even in Ireland, where there is a strong social push-back against the greedy ego mentality, there are still people willing to sell out their environment, country, and grandmothers to get a leg up.

These people have done very well for themselves in the last couple decades, and especially well the past few years.

To further show how right you are, these people have invested considerable resources (that have paid off well) in messing up the basic needs you mention of housing, healthcare and food - and I would add media to that list.

To me, this is the core of neoliberalism, and it is a worldwide plague.

Re: 'No One Is Safe': How the Heatwave Has Battered the Wealthy World

#23

Post by premium-lizard »

ithkuil wrote: post #19
canoebuilder wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The relentless doom saying gives the impression that there are some studies or research or science out there that can accurately make predictions of the sort you are interested in, but as far as I know that’s not the case. I’m not aware of any system with a track record of predicting climates that far out. A volcano could erupt tomorrow and create much cooler climates around the world. Al Gore’s movie from the early…

> Al Gore’s movie from the early 2000s said Florida would be underwater by now. Would our could? If a volcano could erupt then perhaps the sea also could rise? It's sad that it's so hard to talk about which of these are more likely without bringing up one's whole political identity into the discussion.

> Would our could?

I doubt the movie expressed absolute certainty, but it was indisputably meant to be alarming.

> the sea also could rise

It wouldn't be surprising, since they've been rising for 20,000 years. The strange thing about sea rise is that the tens of meters of rise from before the industrial revolution were good and natural, whereas the centimeters since are evil, and definitely due to CO2 emissions.

Re: 'No One Is Safe': How the Heatwave Has Battered the Wealthy World

#25

Post by nradov »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #12

One of the issues with anything that makes money, is that it encourages a “race to make a pile.” People want to make as big a pile of money as possible, as quickly as they can, with the idea that the pile will be big enough to allow them (and just them) to be secure for the rest of their (and just their) lives. That attitude runs directly counter to the long-term planning, and sacrifice for the greater good, that is…

Which Asian nations are you thinking of? Because China is full of people wanting to make as big a pile of money as possible, as quickly as they can.

Re: 'No One Is Safe': How the Heatwave Has Battered the Wealthy World

#26

Post by Rustan »

aclelland wrote: post #21
nprateem wrote: post #2

Maybe they'll finally start to do something about it then.

Unfortunately, it seems like individuals will start spending more money on cooling solutions (air con, insulation). Local government will spend more on wildfire prevention (fewer trees, more housing restrictions) and national governments will continue to promise they'll ban X, Y and Z in 10-15 years (when they'll not be in power or will have quietly dropped the promise in the next election). I hope I'm wrong but livi…

Immediate action on many fronts is needed, and when that happens there is pushback like in NZ now. Getting past that means some actual change.

Re: 'No One Is Safe': How the Heatwave Has Battered the Wealthy World

#27

Post by azornathogron »

aclelland wrote: post #21
nprateem wrote: post #2

Maybe they'll finally start to do something about it then.

Unfortunately, it seems like individuals will start spending more money on cooling solutions (air con, insulation). Local government will spend more on wildfire prevention (fewer trees, more housing restrictions) and national governments will continue to promise they'll ban X, Y and Z in 10-15 years (when they'll not be in power or will have quietly dropped the promise in the next election). I hope I'm wrong but livi…

> Unfortunately, it seems like individuals will start spending more money on cooling solutions (air con, insulation).

It may be unfortunate, but it's also necessary. Investing in improved insulation is a good thing regardless, but I expect air-con to also be necessary. Given where we are right now and the huge inertia in the system, even in the best possible case of 100% of world governments and people getting on-board with reducing emissions as fast as possible right now, we're still looking at severe impact from climate change, and we will have to adapt to cope with the weather events (like heatwaves) that that creates. Hence, air-con. And flood barriers. And making plans for how to use public buildings as heat shelters or disaster evacuation shelters.

(All IMHO, I am not an expert, etc)

Re: 'No One Is Safe': How the Heatwave Has Battered the Wealthy World

#28

Post by Juliate »

premium-lizard wrote: post #23
ithkuil wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Al Gore’s movie from the early 2000s said Florida would be underwater by now. Would our could? If a volcano could erupt then perhaps the sea also could rise? It's sad that it's so hard to talk about which of these are more likely without bringing up one's whole political identity into the discussion.

> Would our could? I doubt the movie expressed absolute certainty, but it was indisputably meant to be alarming. > the sea also could rise It wouldn't be surprising, since they've been rising for 20,000 years. The strange thing about sea rise is that the tens of meters of rise from before the industrial revolution were good and natural, whereas the centimeters since are evil, and definitely due to CO2 emissions.

> I doubt the movie expressed absolute certainty, but it was indisputably meant to be alarming.

Well, seasoned reasonable discourse from the scientific community started in the 70s (as well as knowledge of the issue among oil companies).

So, you'd expect a 2000-dated discourse to be slightly more alarming, yes.

Re: 'No One Is Safe': How the Heatwave Has Battered the Wealthy World

#29

Post by valzam »

mandmandam wrote: post #22
mschuster91 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People want to make as big a pile of money as possible, as quickly as they can, with the idea that the pile will be big enough to allow them (and just them) to be secure for the rest of their (and just their) lives. In a society as cut-throat capitalist as the US, yes. In "welfare states" such as Europe, where everyone has their basic needs in life (housing, healthcare and food) at least somewhat met, this desire i…

You are right, though I don't know if you'll cut through the cognitive dissonance. Still though, even in Ireland, where there is a strong social push-back against the greedy ego mentality, there are still people willing to sell out their environment, country, and grandmothers to get a leg up. These people have done very well for themselves in the last couple decades, and especially well the past few years. To further…

Ireland seems like a poor example considering that they basically turned themselves into a tax haven withing Europe for international corporations. That is the core of their growth and runs exactly counter to the 'act for the greater good's mentality.

Re: 'No One Is Safe': How the Heatwave Has Battered the Wealthy World

#30

Post by ido »

nradov wrote: post #25
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #12

One of the issues with anything that makes money, is that it encourages a “race to make a pile.” People want to make as big a pile of money as possible, as quickly as they can, with the idea that the pile will be big enough to allow them (and just them) to be secure for the rest of their (and just their) lives. That attitude runs directly counter to the long-term planning, and sacrifice for the greater good, that is…

Which Asian nations are you thinking of? Because China is full of people wanting to make as big a pile of money as possible, as quickly as they can.

Stereotypically we were often told how Taiwan and Japan weathered early COVID better due to such collectivist attitudes.
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