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I'm a Frito-Lay Factory Worker. I Work 12-Hour Days, 7 Days a Week

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Re: I'm a Frito-Lay Factory Worker. I Work 12-Hour Days, 7 Days a Week

#31

Post by kcplate »

AndyMcConachie wrote: post #9
knuthsat wrote: post #2

Anyone knows why people decide to do this kind of time consuming work? Is the world getting hard enough that there is no alternative? Whenever I see people working really hard in other parts of the world, especially when the country is filled with other opportunities, I always wonder is it just everyone else that is raising the bar and now the standard is very time consuming work. For example, there's year long touri…

People running factories have been exploiting and overworking the people working in their factories since there have been factories. There's nothing new here.

I think there is always going to be a bit of a disconnect and lack of empathy about excessive work hours when an hourly worker gripes about forced overtime (where in the US they are legally required to be paid at least 1.5x their hourly rate for the overtime) is complaining to salaried management (that are generally working a similar number of hours…but unpaid beyond the 40).

Kind of makes you wonder which side is being exploited.

Re: I'm a Frito-Lay Factory Worker. I Work 12-Hour Days, 7 Days a Week

#32

Post by vasco »

knuthsat wrote: post #2

Anyone knows why people decide to do this kind of time consuming work? Is the world getting hard enough that there is no alternative? Whenever I see people working really hard in other parts of the world, especially when the country is filled with other opportunities, I always wonder is it just everyone else that is raising the bar and now the standard is very time consuming work. For example, there's year long touri…

There's no "siesta" (a spanish word and custom) anywhere in Portugal, including Madeira. Businesses may close for an hour or so for lunch, but "siesta" is not a thing. Not sure why you picked that as an example out of any other work expectation in any country.

Re: I'm a Frito-Lay Factory Worker. I Work 12-Hour Days, 7 Days a Week

#33

Post by quickthrower2 »

mchusma wrote: post #25
quickthrower2 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are being very smart, by striking and standing up for their rights. I think forcing people to work that many hours should be illegal, like in the EU

They weren't forced to work though. Conflating optional decisions with force is dangerous. If they have better alternatives, they should do those. If they believe that by stopping work, they can get change from their employer, go for it. But nothing here is forced.

Depends what you mean by forced.

If you can get fired for “underperforming” or even think you can then this is forced in the minds of the employee.

There is a massive power imbalance.

Sure the guy can resign and get another job, just like the tech industry right? Might even get $200k plus RSUs and free lunches?

More like struggle to get another job, maybe get evicted, and oh surprise new job is shit too and they force you to do OT or an algorithm fires you.

Re: I'm a Frito-Lay Factory Worker. I Work 12-Hour Days, 7 Days a Week

#34

Post by dang »

Beaver117 wrote: post #3

Everyone knows to work smart not hard. What's stopping them?

"Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work. A good critical comment teaches us something."

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: I'm a Frito-Lay Factory Worker. I Work 12-Hour Days, 7 Days a Week

#36

Post by samatman »

mcculley wrote: post #27
knuthsat wrote: post #2

Anyone knows why people decide to do this kind of time consuming work? Is the world getting hard enough that there is no alternative? Whenever I see people working really hard in other parts of the world, especially when the country is filled with other opportunities, I always wonder is it just everyone else that is raising the bar and now the standard is very time consuming work. For example, there's year long touri…

In addition to the many insightful replies here add: Once you have a working class addicted to some combination of fast food, sugar, caffeine, alcohol, pot, opioids, and other drugs which cost money, they have a reduced capability to dig themselves out of a hole.

Man it is super weird that you put caffeine on that list.

I assume, because you did it, that you're one of those mutants who doesn't use it nor like it much. Good for you and all, but caffeine made the modern world, the majority of the population uses it every day, and industrial society wouldn't function without it.

It's also super-cheap even on a modest salary, and most workplaces give it away for free because of how necessary it is to production.

Re: I'm a Frito-Lay Factory Worker. I Work 12-Hour Days, 7 Days a Week

#37

Post by jbay808 »

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #20
knuthsat wrote: post #2

Anyone knows why people decide to do this kind of time consuming work? Is the world getting hard enough that there is no alternative? Whenever I see people working really hard in other parts of the world, especially when the country is filled with other opportunities, I always wonder is it just everyone else that is raising the bar and now the standard is very time consuming work. For example, there's year long touri…

Its a very good question. I think in general it is important to realize that a significant amount of "design" work goes in to creating economies. Local, state, and national decisions will lead to certain conditions. How were those decisions made, and under what conditions? For any given place the answer will be different. How does one place compare to another? It is my view that it is perfectly feasible to design eco…

> How did things get the way they became? Is it due to iron wrought natural laws, or historical decisions we could freely agree to change?

Reminds me of Scott Alexander's Meditations on Moloch, which also ponders this question. I can't do it justice with just one excerpt, but here's one passage that always stays with me:

The reason our current system isn’t a utopia is that it wasn’t designed by humans. Just as you can look at an arid terrain and determine what shape a river will one day take by assuming water will obey gravity, so you can look at a civilization and determine what shape its institutions will one day take by assuming people will obey incentives.

... Just as the course of a river is latent in a terrain even before the first rain falls on it – so the existence of Caesar’s Palace was latent in neurobiology, economics, and regulatory regimes even before it existed. The entrepreneur who built it was just filling in the ghostly lines with real concrete.

https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/30/meditations-on-moloch/

Re: I'm a Frito-Lay Factory Worker. I Work 12-Hour Days, 7 Days a Week

#38

Post by Frost1x »

clairity wrote: post #29
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its a very good question. I think in general it is important to realize that a significant amount of "design" work goes in to creating economies. Local, state, and national decisions will lead to certain conditions. How were those decisions made, and under what conditions? For any given place the answer will be different. How does one place compare to another? It is my view that it is perfectly feasible to design eco…

as nice as that utopia would be, the fundamental flaw with trying to limit working days/hours is that some people will still pour their whole lives into work, which creates an iterated game that pushes the equilibrium for everyone toward working more. there's no practical way to mitigate this powerful, arguably inate, incentive. the other option is actively coercing a daily/weekly work limit, and that not only severe…

>some people will still pour their whole lives into work, which creates an iterated game that pushes the equilibrium for everyone toward working more. there's no practical way to mitigate this powerful, arguably inate, incentive.

The trick here is to make sure those who don't push for the incentives are taken care of. You need to make sure everyone participating at the sane rates are taken care of in their needs and some wants. After that, you allow for those obsessed with incentives and wants to work as much as they want to get extravagant things. It's easier said than done but I believe its attainable. If you can create an economy where that sort of effort at work is used to buy luxuries and not necessities, then you have a good model that still has a balance of incentives without dragging the rest of society into a work obsessed life.

People who put for this amount of effort shouldn't be doing it because they have to, they should be doing it because they want to. Unfortunately many people are doing it because they really have to, that or their standard of living drops significantly, their overall longevity. Unfortunately that's the world we have. People are forced to work at these sorts of rates to survive and it's only getting worse. It's not that they're slaving away their lives because they want to get a new luxury car or exotic vacation, it's that the alternatives to not doing it means they may be homeless next month or looking for somewhere new to live.

Re: I'm a Frito-Lay Factory Worker. I Work 12-Hour Days, 7 Days a Week

#39

Post by mcculley »

samatman wrote: post #36
mcculley wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In addition to the many insightful replies here add: Once you have a working class addicted to some combination of fast food, sugar, caffeine, alcohol, pot, opioids, and other drugs which cost money, they have a reduced capability to dig themselves out of a hole.

Man it is super weird that you put caffeine on that list. I assume, because you did it, that you're one of those mutants who doesn't use it nor like it much. Good for you and all, but caffeine made the modern world , the majority of the population uses it every day, and industrial society wouldn't function without it. It's also super-cheap even on a modest salary, and most workplaces give it away for free because of…

I am aware of Pollan's recently well-publicized assertion that caffeine made the modern world. I am unconvinced.

I quit caffeine a few years ago. I'm not an unusual mutant. I have the genes on markers rs4410790 and rs2470893 that indicate a typical reaction to caffeine. (https://enki.org/2017/08/13/quitting-caffeine/)

Most people experience a temporary increase in productivity until they build up a tolerance for caffeine. Thereafter, they are just paying and consuming to avoid headaches and reach the baseline.

Re: I'm a Frito-Lay Factory Worker. I Work 12-Hour Days, 7 Days a Week

#40

Post by nabilhat »

knuthsat wrote: post #2

Anyone knows why people decide to do this kind of time consuming work? Is the world getting hard enough that there is no alternative? Whenever I see people working really hard in other parts of the world, especially when the country is filled with other opportunities, I always wonder is it just everyone else that is raising the bar and now the standard is very time consuming work. For example, there's year long touri…

If you don't have an easy option close at hand it ends up being a choice between continuing, taking a massive hit to your income, or choosing unemployment.

The pay is exactly high enough to maintain minimal staffing. That's normal, but in working conditions like this sometime it ends up a tiny bit higher than the local rate for similar jobs if there's competition for employees. Not everyone can maintain the working conditions. They leave, get kicked out, or they're useful (or connected) enough to keep around working humane hours.

The rest have bills, or legal requirements to maintain employment, or burned a bridge at the other factory in town, or they're inexperienced enough to not know better. They establish a reputation as an employee who can be pushed into working inhumane hours. Managers are often rewarded for keeping up with production with a small team.

A few years go by before you know it, and working hours like this is expensive. You don't have time to maintain your stuff and house, you pay someone else to. Kids need to be watched. Spouses leave. Drugs or alcohol offer to fill the holes in Maslow's Hierarchy you've sacrificed. Savings don't pile up like one might assume.

Interviewing is treacherous. If you're lucky you work a night shift so you can do an interview instead of sleeping. They'll ask you how much you make per hour and offer you a lower "starting rate" hourly wage with fewer hours, which would cut your income drastically, and suggest there might be a review/small raise in 6 months. They'll call your employer before offering you a job at that rate, putting you at risk of retaliation whether you take the offer or not.

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