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I'm a Frito-Lay Factory Worker. I Work 12-Hour Days, 7 Days a Week

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Re: I'm a Frito-Lay Factory Worker. I Work 12-Hour Days, 7 Days a Week

#21
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to the article, "Most people make between $16.50 and $20 an hour". So, at 84 hours a week (46 normal pay, 38 overtime at 1.5x), thats $1700/week on the low end, or $88k/year. I dont think that excuses the forced overtime and I would absolutely expect severe health and/or mental health issues to result from the overwork. But, these people can quit (and according to the article many do) - I expect the only re…

They are not making that much as it’s unpaid overtime or “suicide” as they colloquially call it according to the article. Edit: sorry I’m wrong. I read “kills you over time” as “kills your overtime”

The article does not claim that it is unpaid. If they were working unpaid hours that would be a serious legal issue and state and federal regulators would be getting involved.

Re: I'm a Frito-Lay Factory Worker. I Work 12-Hour Days, 7 Days a Week

#22
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to the article, "Most people make between $16.50 and $20 an hour". So, at 84 hours a week (46 normal pay, 38 overtime at 1.5x), thats $1700/week on the low end, or $88k/year. I dont think that excuses the forced overtime and I would absolutely expect severe health and/or mental health issues to result from the overwork. But, these people can quit (and according to the article many do) - I expect the only re…

They are not making that much as it’s unpaid overtime or “suicide” as they colloquially call it according to the article. Edit: sorry I’m wrong. I read “kills you over time” as “kills your overtime”

This is not unpaid. That's extremely illegal.

Re: I'm a Frito-Lay Factory Worker. I Work 12-Hour Days, 7 Days a Week

#24

Everyone knows to work smart not hard. What's stopping them?

This is the “have you tried yoga” of labor discourse — shallow, unhelpful, and really dismissive, especially when factory workers are not given the choice to work additional hours, working conditions are challenging at best, and management seems (putting it charitably) negligent.

Re: I'm a Frito-Lay Factory Worker. I Work 12-Hour Days, 7 Days a Week

#25

Everyone knows to work smart not hard. What's stopping them?

They are being very smart, by striking and standing up for their rights. I think forcing people to work that many hours should be illegal, like in the EU

They weren't forced to work though.

Conflating optional decisions with force is dangerous.

If they have better alternatives, they should do those. If they believe that by stopping work, they can get change from their employer, go for it. But nothing here is forced.

Re: I'm a Frito-Lay Factory Worker. I Work 12-Hour Days, 7 Days a Week

#26
post #2

Anyone knows why people decide to do this kind of time consuming work? Is the world getting hard enough that there is no alternative? Whenever I see people working really hard in other parts of the world, especially when the country is filled with other opportunities, I always wonder is it just everyone else that is raising the bar and now the standard is very time consuming work. For example, there's year long touri…

Why people “decide” to do this sort of work? Oh, I don’t know, probably the same reasons people “decide” to be poor.

Re: I'm a Frito-Lay Factory Worker. I Work 12-Hour Days, 7 Days a Week

#27
post #2

Anyone knows why people decide to do this kind of time consuming work? Is the world getting hard enough that there is no alternative? Whenever I see people working really hard in other parts of the world, especially when the country is filled with other opportunities, I always wonder is it just everyone else that is raising the bar and now the standard is very time consuming work. For example, there's year long touri…

In addition to the many insightful replies here add: Once you have a working class addicted to some combination of fast food, sugar, caffeine, alcohol, pot, opioids, and other drugs which cost money, they have a reduced capability to dig themselves out of a hole.

Re: I'm a Frito-Lay Factory Worker. I Work 12-Hour Days, 7 Days a Week

#28
I used to work as an equity analyst, so have come at this problem from totally the other end.

The number one problem, that I have seen no-one talk about, are certain incentives from the market (not short-termism, if someone says that they don't understand what is happening).

I buy PEP at 15x earnings...I don't need a lot of growth to make that price work. Even if they grow a 10-20% over five years, I will probably make a market return. Which is fair.

If I buy PEP at 25x earnings plus (roughly where it is today)...that is different. I need earnings to double and then some within five years. Huge imperative for growth. If I don't see the growth, I will lose 50%+ on the position.

So when the share price is that high, the incentives are out the window. The board is never going to hire the guy who says: well, share price could do with a reset, how about we take a year boys...no, at 25x earnings, they will take the guy who comes into the room ten minutes after his piece, rips his shirt off in the interview, and drinks blood for breakfast. The boys on the comp committee want growth, they will set the 20x salary bonus package accordingly, and the exec team is going to fight like rats in a bag to get the juice.

This got very bad in FMCG too because 3G Capital exposed the amount of middle management waste at Heinz and, of course, consumers are consuming less of these unhealthy snacks. No top-line growth, so costs is the only way you can pay out.

On the OP, it is deplorable. Investors do not want this. Most fund managers do not have money in their own funds, the PR is horrendous. Companies shouldn't treat their workers this way. But...the Fed has pumped up the market, every exec team is feeling joocy on that stimmy, multiples are through the roof...everyone knows it is going to blow but the music is still playing.

I have no idea what the solution is, only that lots of people get the incentives totally wrong. Investors aren't short-term. Every investor wants the stock they can hold for five, ten, twenty years. But I have seen good companies run themselves into the ground because the comp committee wanted a "stretch" target that was literally impossible (particularly in retail, any company that can grow unprofitably but cheaply will be hung by the comp committee). Companies are even doing % of market cap growth by date X packages now, it is truly obscene (thank Elon). CEOs create these cultish atmospheres because of the incentives of pay (this is true of PEP: afaik, Nooyi was a terrible CEO, made terrible acquisitions to goose the share price, never got challenged, and walks away with $25-50m...if you lose the guys on the floor, you don't have a company tomorrow...if you don't hire Nooyi, you have saved billions in shareholder value...but it is the latter that is indispensable?).

Re: I'm a Frito-Lay Factory Worker. I Work 12-Hour Days, 7 Days a Week

#29
post #2

Anyone knows why people decide to do this kind of time consuming work? Is the world getting hard enough that there is no alternative? Whenever I see people working really hard in other parts of the world, especially when the country is filled with other opportunities, I always wonder is it just everyone else that is raising the bar and now the standard is very time consuming work. For example, there's year long touri…

Its a very good question. I think in general it is important to realize that a significant amount of "design" work goes in to creating economies. Local, state, and national decisions will lead to certain conditions. How were those decisions made, and under what conditions? For any given place the answer will be different. How does one place compare to another? It is my view that it is perfectly feasible to design eco…

as nice as that utopia would be, the fundamental flaw with trying to limit working days/hours is that some people will still pour their whole lives into work, which creates an iterated game that pushes the equilibrium for everyone toward working more. there's no practical way to mitigate this powerful, arguably inate, incentive.

the other option is actively coercing a daily/weekly work limit, and that not only severely infringes personal liberties, but eventually makes whole economies less competitive as the hardest working & most ambitious workers migrate away.

the better approach is to try to ensure everyone has dignity and fair pay for the amount of work that they do. that's a function of the distribution of pay and wealth, which is something we can legislate via sticks and carrots.

Re: I'm a Frito-Lay Factory Worker. I Work 12-Hour Days, 7 Days a Week

#30
post #2

Anyone knows why people decide to do this kind of time consuming work? Is the world getting hard enough that there is no alternative? Whenever I see people working really hard in other parts of the world, especially when the country is filled with other opportunities, I always wonder is it just everyone else that is raising the bar and now the standard is very time consuming work. For example, there's year long touri…

"Anyone knows why people decide to do this kind of time consuming work?"

About 50% of people have very little choice in the types of jobs and conditions they work in.

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