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Master’s degrees are the second biggest scam in higher education?

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Re: Master’s degrees are the second biggest scam in higher education?

#271

Post by UK-Al05 »

chrisseaton wrote: post #259
ipaddr wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dentist, vet clinic, lawyer are three. Daycare center, hairstyling and financial advisor are others that require qualifications / lic

> Dentist, vet clinic, lawyer are three. People aren't learning these professions at folk high school are they?

That's the point. Most people want adult education so they have comfortable lives. Learning about history is a luxury pursuit really for people who are already comfortable and have spare time.

So you really need education that leads to recognised qualifications.

Re: Master’s degrees are the second biggest scam in higher education?

#272

Post by mavelikara »

pclmulqdq wrote: post #224
fnord77 wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

we've had foreign job candidates with masters degrees in CS from top 50 schools who couldn't pass a simple programming test or who couldn't answer some basic CS questions on O(n) or whatnot. I'm not talking sadistic google interview questions, these were things that anyone with a BS should be able to answer.

That has happened to me so many times that my last company shreds resumes from foreign students with a prestigious American masters where the undergrad is not similarly prestigious (eg IIT and Tsinghua are good, but not many other schools).

India has a population of well over a billion people. IITs admit only about 5000 students per academic year, from about 100K students applying, across all disciplines. If you find all other students from India not qualified, maybe there is something seriously wrong with your candidate outreach, or you hire from a very exclusive pool even stateside.

Re: Master’s degrees are the second biggest scam in higher education?

#273

Post by david38 »

whatshisface wrote: post #241
R0b0t1 wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should also be viewed as potentially disadvantaging people already in the US. If these programs are catering to wealthy foreigners looking to immigrate, then we're not serving whatever need may be inside the country already.

In some fields, there is no need for masters degrees at all. For example in physics you can get a bachelors and career out, or get a PhD and be a physicist (industrial or academic), but there are no jobs I can think of that a masters would qualify you for that a bachelors wouldn't.

A master’s in physics is usually a sort of consolation prize to people who do not finish their PhD. Like you said, you either need a BS or PhD.

Re: Master’s degrees are the second biggest scam in higher education?

#274

Post by pclmulqdq »

mavelikara wrote: post #272
pclmulqdq wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That has happened to me so many times that my last company shreds resumes from foreign students with a prestigious American masters where the undergrad is not similarly prestigious (eg IIT and Tsinghua are good, but not many other schools).

India has a population of well over a billion people. IITs admit only about 5000 students per academic year, from about 100K students applying, across all disciplines. If you find all other students from India not qualified, maybe there is something seriously wrong with your candidate outreach, or you hire from a very exclusive pool even stateside.

We did only hire from about 20 schools in the US. The unfortunate thing is that the masters programs did not filter nearly as exclusively as the undergrad programs.

Re: Master’s degrees are the second biggest scam in higher education?

#275

Post by marto1 »

phsource wrote: post #150

One reason that often gets glossed over (including in this article) is how (non-online) Masters programs are huge moneymakers as a ticket to working in the US. I've seen that in CS programs at University of Buffalo and Yale, a majority of Masters students are from abroad, especially from Asia. Basically, if you wanted to work in tech in the US, you could either: - Find a multinational company in your home country, wo…

> are huge moneymakers as a ticket to working in the US.

Not just the US. Most countries in Europe offer international master degrees in english that serve the exact same purpose.

Re: Master’s degrees are the second biggest scam in higher education?

#276

Post by 3nf »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #208
fnord77 wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Assuming you're actually smart and skilled as an interviewer, I see many w/ masters degrees who are neither.

Right - I think a lot of people hope that by being more educated they'll get "smarter". That's not really how it works. You just get more educated. In software, you DO need a lot of skills. But I think more important than that is having the ability to learn new things/skills quickly (being smart). The industry is always changing and evolving. College is only going to get you the skills - maybe, a lot of times they te…

Nobody gets paid if you're an autodidact.

Re: Master’s degrees are the second biggest scam in higher education?

#277

Post by mavelikara »

pclmulqdq wrote: post #274
mavelikara wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

India has a population of well over a billion people. IITs admit only about 5000 students per academic year, from about 100K students applying, across all disciplines. If you find all other students from India not qualified, maybe there is something seriously wrong with your candidate outreach, or you hire from a very exclusive pool even stateside.

We did only hire from about 20 schools in the US. The unfortunate thing is that the masters programs did not filter nearly as exclusively as the undergrad programs.

Ok, so you were "shredding resumes" of students of all but 20 schools in US, IITs and Tsinghua. That's an extremely high hiring bar.

I don't think this experience can be used to draw general conclusions on the quality of education across Masters programs in US.

Re: Master’s degrees are the second biggest scam in higher education?

#278

Post by mavelikara »

phsource wrote: post #150

One reason that often gets glossed over (including in this article) is how (non-online) Masters programs are huge moneymakers as a ticket to working in the US. I've seen that in CS programs at University of Buffalo and Yale, a majority of Masters students are from abroad, especially from Asia. Basically, if you wanted to work in tech in the US, you could either: - Find a multinational company in your home country, wo…

> are huge moneymakers as a ticket to working in the US.

Beyond that, the international Masters students are really subsidizing the education of other students. Every time there is some friction added to the student visa process, all but the top schools with huge endowment funds feel the financial pressure.

Most narratives I read about this situation paints the picture of the students buying their way into US residency via Masters program. But it works the other way too - many US citizens are able to get educated at an affordable price because of the money these Masters students bring in to the school.

Re: Master’s degrees are the second biggest scam in higher education?

#279

Post by dehrmann »

netr0ute wrote: post #265
dehrmann wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why is it so easy to drastically improve one's performance on standardized tests I'm going to guess you're gains plateau or you get to a near-perfect score pretty quickly. The gains you're seeing are just familiarity with the test.

How can some people keep improving year after year on these tests, though? They don't fit into your possible options.

Do you mean the same person gets better year over year? They learned and matured as a student.

Re: Master’s degrees are the second biggest scam in higher education?

#280

Post by MeinBlutIstBlau »

jxidjhdhdhdhfhf wrote: post #260
MeinBlutIstBlau wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are absolutely right and that definitely makes sense. But, and I have to preface this has been my experience, there are virtually no accommodations. School is your job when you go back to a university and colleges believe that is what you should be doing. Now to the legalities. The Age Discrimination Act mandates any institution receiving federal funding from preventing someone from being able to participate[0].…

It may be discrimination towards people with jobs, but it's not based on age. Legally, employees are not a protected class. Also, the protected class for age is "people over 40", who are not necessarily more likely to work full time than people under 40.

If you intentionally create an environment that is hostile toward people of differing ages, you are discriminating. My college required me upon sign up to put in for my housing "My parent/guardians contact information." Universally everyone is an adult when they enter college (the people who don't are so rare I'm ignoring them). I could not leave the page unless I entered any data so I just put my name and contact info. Guess what else? All the events are catered toward young students and target them specifically that way. If someone really wanted to, they could easily have an age discrimination case against almost every school. Culturally however, people don't because they don't want to associate with lesser experienced and more incredibly arrogant individuals.
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