112 Gripes About the French • Hacker News Board

Re: 112 Gripes About the French

#281

Post by baby » Sat, Jul 17, 2021, 6:47 PM UTC

heffer wrote: post #169

baby wrote: post #10

This whole thing is amazing. It still reads really well today, like there's no tone of racism and nothing seems inappropriate (which is a hard thing to achieve with time). I wish we had such a book currently on how arabs and the muslim world are different, but not so different than us. > We didn't come to Europe to save the French, either in 1917 or in 1944. We didn't come to Europe to do anyone any favors. We came t…

> nothing seems inappropriate "The French can't drive a car. They can't keep it up. They ruin vehicles." The French, on the whole, certainly do not drive as well, keep a car up as well, or protect their vehicles as well as we do. Neither do women, compared to men. We have had more mechanical training, more technical experience. And at the present time we have incomparably better maintenance facilities.

The first line is one of the questions right? So it doesn't count.

The rest doesn't seem inappropriate to me, I can believe it to be right.

Re: 112 Gripes About the French

#282

Post by techrat » Sat, Jul 17, 2021, 6:47 PM UTC

overgard wrote: post #180

techrat wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right there with the 'both sides are the same' false equivalence... In case you're wondering why.

I think if you are willing to ignore 50% of the population, well, I don't know what to tell you other than that history does not look kindly on partisans.

>well, I don't know what to tell you other than that history does not look kindly on partisans.

"Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing."

If the only way to stop an act of violence is with an act of violence, allowing it to happen in the first place, as you would condemn the response of violence, ends up being the greater evil.

Also look up 'The Paradox of Tolerance.'

Saying it is to be 'partisan' to call out injustice is the ultimate in hypocrisy.

History has already condemned those who stepped back and did nothing.

Re: 112 Gripes About the French

#283

Post by baby » Sat, Jul 17, 2021, 6:50 PM UTC

analognoise wrote: post #237

Intermernet wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know how you just got all defensive and insulted about a generalization made about America? That's how the Chinese, Iranians, Russians, Iraqis etc. feel when you make generalizations about them. The recent US leadership hasn't done a very good job of representing "American Values". You can expect anti-American sentiment from this. It may not be justified when referring to individuals, but neither is the xenophobi…

...the countries that repress their own citizens and don't have a free press? You go to China and point out abuses. See how it goes. Or Russia - just don't stand by any windows. Those countries have legitimate issues we call out. We call ours out too. That's the difference.

Have you heard of Navalny?

Re: 112 Gripes About the French

#284

Post by ashtonkem » Sat, Jul 17, 2021, 6:59 PM UTC

afr0ck wrote: post #232

ThePadawan wrote: post #9

> (...) tensions began to rise between the French and the U.S. military personnel stationed in the country, with the former seeing the latter as arrogant and wanting to flaunt their wealth, and the latter seeing the former as proud and resentful. Well. I mean... Joking aside, the text is amazingly blunt and honest, in a rather refreshing way. "The French don't bathe." The French don't bathe often enough. They can't.…

I like the fact that the French didn't like American presence on their sole and had offensive feelings towards that, while at the same time, they were forcefully present all over Africa with totalitarian and oppressive military administrations. In Algeria, many fought in WW2 as part of the French Expeditionary Corps (e.g; my great-grandfather) with the hope that in case the allies win, Algerians could possibly negoti…

A lot of the allied leaders get a better historical reputation because they’re naturally compared to their opponent, Hitler. Without Hitler there as a foil, most of them would be treated far worse by history.

Charles de Gaulle should get more crap over his behavior in Algeria than he does. Same for Churchill and his behavior in India.

Re: 112 Gripes About the French

#285

Post by mlok » Sat, Jul 17, 2021, 7:03 PM UTC

baby wrote: post #10

This whole thing is amazing. It still reads really well today, like there's no tone of racism and nothing seems inappropriate (which is a hard thing to achieve with time). I wish we had such a book currently on how arabs and the muslim world are different, but not so different than us. > We didn't come to Europe to save the French, either in 1917 or in 1944. We didn't come to Europe to do anyone any favors. We came t…

If I understand well, the Statue of Liberty was a gift from the French people (not the French State) but the pedestal was american : there was none when the statue arrived, and it waited for a year there in its crates.

"The promoters of the statue in France formed an organization, the French-American Union, in 1875. The group issued a statement calling for donations from the public and presenting a general plan specifying that the statue would be paid for by France, while the pedestal upon which the statue would stand would be paid for by Americans."

Source : https://www.thoughtco.com/who-paid-for-the-statue-of-liberty...

Re: 112 Gripes About the French

#286

Post by dudul » Sat, Jul 17, 2021, 7:07 PM UTC

supergarfield wrote: post #272

dudul wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you expand on that? I have dual citizenship, have spent each half of my life in both countries and I find French and Americans very different. How do you see them as similar?

Not the OP---I agree they're very different, but there's a striking resemblance in how both countries think their political and intellectual culture is civilization's crowning achievement and the entire world should adopt it. (Of course, the US has been more able to do export theirs than France in recent decades.) IMO this shapes both countries' relationships to the rest of the world. I have less first hand experienc…

I couldn't disagree more. International policies are completely different in the US and in France. The US are extremely interventionist and some may say "aggressive", this is not at all the French doctrine. It was very clearly apparent during the 2nd war in Iraq. France ignored NATO for decades until recently.

As for a more philosophical point of view, again, disagree. Universalism is indeed a concept of the French Republic while the US vision is exceptionalism. These are complete opposite.

Finally, I guess there is a certain amount of distrust of the government in rural areas (is it specific to France and the US?) but where in the US the expectation is that the government should be doing as little as possible, in France the expectation is that it should do much more to help/support people. The relationships of Americans and French to their respective government are complete opposite again. In France, people expect a lot from the government who is supposed to be the great equalizer.

Re: 112 Gripes About the French

#287

Post by epivosism » Sat, Jul 17, 2021, 7:09 PM UTC

CydeWeys wrote: post #97

julienfr112 wrote: post #90

I kind of wonder why it's always acceptable to have general critics about the Frenchs, but take exactly the same discours and replace it replace it with Jews or Blacks, and sundenly, it becomes completely racist and unacceptable.

You can't compare a nationality to an ethnicity/religion and a race, respectively.

Which is more important, culture or race? Same-culture bonds of language, ideals, values, traditions look stronger to me. I connect to people from my hometown, of my culture, regardless of race, way more than to people who just randomly have my race but don't know any of my memes or have similar values.

Another example: bonds within military units are cultural, not racial; if race were more powerful you'd expect soldiers from mixed-race countries to change sides due to stronger racial pulls - which I don't think happens, and which would be super problematic, wouldn't it? A Japanese-American soldier is American first, right? Suggesting that race is incomparably larger of a gap than culture has some really serious implications.

Re: 112 Gripes About the French

#288

Post by bumby » Sat, Jul 17, 2021, 7:11 PM UTC

throwawaycanal wrote: post #269

yardie wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - Voters should show proof of citizenship when voting. You'll get no disagreement on this from any liberal. In fact the disagreement lies not in proving citizenship but in the methods to do so. If you have to show proof to register then why do you need to show proof to vote? In fact, if you have ID that proves you are a valid voter then registration shouldn't be necessary at all. Republicans not only want you to sh…

>You'll get no disagreement on this from any liberal. Maybe in France but in the US you will absolutely get disagreement from liberals. >If you have to show proof to register then why do you need to show proof to vote? If you showed proof to get your driver's license then why do you need to show proof to drive? If you showed proof to purchase/register your vehicle why do you need to show proof of registration when yo…

>If you showed proof to get your driver's license then why do you need to show proof to drive?

The general counter to this is that one is a privilege and the other is a right. Usually any hurdle to exercising a constitutionally protected is going to receive some pushback. The same goes for the firearm registration issue.

Re: 112 Gripes About the French

#289

Post by yarcob » Sat, Jul 17, 2021, 7:22 PM UTC

conceptme wrote: post #276

eplanit wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wrong. Try Japan. They're clean, polite, and courteous. Crowded trains in August (like all year) are surprisingly absent of body odor (and litter, and noisy people, ...). Different folks are indeed different in some ways.

Asians sweat less and their sweat does not stink as much for some reason.

I read that body odor is controlled by the same gene as the one for ear wax.

People with wet/creamy ear wax smell. People with dry/crumbly earwax don't smell.

I'm not sure if it's true in general, but it's true for me and my partner.

One of our kids has creamy ear wax, and the other has crumbly ear wax. I'm curious if only one of them will need deodorant once they get to puberty...

Genetics is fun.

Re: 112 Gripes About the French

#290

Post by rayiner » Sat, Jul 17, 2021, 7:39 PM UTC

esrauch wrote: post #243

rayiner wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not just 50% of the population. Folks on the left will sniffily tell you that stuff where the vast majority of the rest of humanity agrees with the right isn’t even up for discussion.

Your sentence is really the same divisive "other side is crazy" crap that everyone else is complaining about. Folks on both the left and right (under US definitions) will sniffily do that same thing and act like their positions are obviously correct and the other side obviously unreasonable.

When was that? 30 years ago? Try having a conversation today with a progressive about virtually any issue where American conservatives may agree with people in Asia or Africa (or even a big chunk of moderate Democrats).

I noticed this particularly acutely in how progressives have rallied around Muslims but you can’t actually talk about a bunch of stuff my Bangladeshi mom and aunts believe. Same sex marriage is one example, but also abortion, gender roles, child rearing, civil order, religion in schools, etc.

Ironically, as a result, you can’t have public conversations about a bunch of stuff many Democrats (particularly non-white Democrats) believe. When Obama have a speech about dads raising their kids, he was shouted down by white liberals. Can’t talk about Latino views on abortion, or Muslim views on gender roles and procreative marriage.