Master’s degrees are the second biggest scam in higher education? • Hacker News Board

Re: Master’s degrees are the second biggest scam in higher education?

#91

Post by ghaff » Sat, Jul 17, 2021, 2:40 PM UTC

wirthjason wrote: post #14

One of the key issues I see is that we don’t place a high enough value on adult education. A philosophy professor of mine told me the word “andragogy”, which is the theory of adult education. It’s different from “pedagogy” which means the education of children. I always thought that learning is learning. It never occurred to me that there’s a difference between how and why children learn and that it could be differen…

I guess I don't really see it.

As an adult, I don't really have much interest in a complete degree with a certification. (With the exception of very bounded industry-specific things.) So in that respect adult education certainly is different.

I have known people who got PhDs as adults and I think they mostly didn't care for the experience. I know I have zero interest in getting another degree. Even a couple of decades ago, it would have zero value for my professional development and would, in fact, have been mostly a distraction.

However, there are a ton of educational opportunities often oriented to working adults. Community colleges, extension programs, online learning of all sorts...

Re: Master’s degrees are the second biggest scam in higher education?

#92

Post by sombremesa » Sat, Jul 17, 2021, 2:42 PM UTC

ldiracdelta wrote: post #53

The two factors are: Credentialism the worship of credentials throughout many industries when other cheaper metrics are available, but may be illegal (like testing for IQ in USA) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credentialism_and_educational_... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griggs_v._Duke_Power_Co . and inability to declare bankruptcy so as to include student loans. Bankruptcy says that the _lender_ has responsibility…

If testing for IQ works for your purposes, then why not use GMAT, GRE, SAT scores?

I’m not sure any of this helps, though, since it would only prove you’re good at the test.

Re: Master’s degrees are the second biggest scam in higher education?

#93

Post by thrower123 » Sat, Jul 17, 2021, 2:45 PM UTC

The biggest cheapening of Master's degrees is in education, where many school districts provide reimbursement and fairly significant pay raises for teachers who get masters. Which has led to a large number of garbage paint-by-number programs to service that demand. My mother got one while I was in high school, from a well respected regional university, and the level of the coursework was laughable.

Re: Master’s degrees are the second biggest scam in higher education?

#94

Post by murderfs » Sat, Jul 17, 2021, 2:47 PM UTC

The article doesn't mention one of the biggest draws: having a masters degree from an accredited U.S. institution improves your chances at getting an H-1B visa.

Re: Master’s degrees are the second biggest scam in higher education?

#95

Post by arpinum » Sat, Jul 17, 2021, 2:48 PM UTC

At at top 10 school in the UK: masters and even doctorates are being essentially sold to foreign students. The standards are incredibly low (students getting degrees without functional use of English), but the revenue to the university is essential.

There is a business risk if schools try to maintain standards (students have paid for degrees, not learning), but the cumulative effect is that I completely ignore graduate degrees when hiring.

Re: Master’s degrees are the second biggest scam in higher education?

#96

Post by kaiwen1 » Sat, Jul 17, 2021, 2:48 PM UTC

I wonder if this scam also applies to executive MBA programs? For example, the Kellogg-HKSTU program cost US$220,000 for about 18 long weekends of on-site classroom time. This is exorbitant, but the Financial Times has ranked the program as the best EMBA program in the world 10 times, primarily due to the large increase in salary after graduation, up 67% to $528,057 in 2020. [1]. In fact, the reported salary increases on all of the top EMBA programs imply that these programs are legitimately worth their costs. They're priced like scams, but (if accurate) the salary increases suggest they aren't. I wonder if there are any master's programs that outperform the best EMBAs in terms of salary increase?

[0] https://emba.hkust.edu.hk [1] https://rankings.ft.com/home/masters-in-business-administrat... [1]

Re: Master’s degrees are the second biggest scam in higher education?

#97

Post by CaptainMarvel » Sat, Jul 17, 2021, 2:52 PM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #89

amelius wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends. If it's in a medical field, you might need a degree.

You don't need a degree to open a medical business. You need a degree to practice medicine.

This certainly depends on local rules. For example, in the UK I believe dental businesses can only be opened by a qualified dentist. I was surprised when I learnt this earlier this year.

This source [0] says “non-dentists cannot set up or buy dental practices as an individual or partnership but they are permitted to be shareholders of a limited company which owns the practice” and “the majority of directors of that limited company cannot be non-dentists”.

[0]: https://www.plutopartners.co.uk/post/who-can-own-a-dental-bu...

Re: Master’s degrees are the second biggest scam in higher education?

#98

Post by UK-Al05 » Sat, Jul 17, 2021, 2:53 PM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #90

UK-Al05 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of professions and trades require a qualification or license to practice. So getting these qualifications are required for reskilling.

Right so the employees providing the actual services may need qualifications. The person opening the business doesn't. I've never seen anywhere where opening a business needs a degree or qualification.

Yes, because tons of people have the capital to open business and hire employees.

Reality is most people wanting to retrain are going to do it as a single person business as a plumber, hair dresser or similar.

Re: Master’s degrees are the second biggest scam in higher education?

#99

Post by chiefalchemist » Sat, Jul 17, 2021, 2:54 PM UTC

hallway_monitor wrote: post #76

chmod600 wrote: post #70

"We can’t just rely on the market to provide all of the quality discipline that master’s programs need." It seems like if the federal government stopped lending for master's degrees, and allowed students to file for bankruptcy to get out of private loans, then the market might very well sort everything out.

Yes, having government involved always creates inflation. It's no coincidence that the two areas with most government involvement, education and health care, are the things that have outpaced every other measure of inflation significantly.

And let's not forget housing. (Our government) making large loans more available and cheaper drives up demand for the intended goods/services. That, naturally, drives up price.

It's difficult to understand why so many people advocate for even more government "intervention" (i.e., do more to increase the availability and cost of loans).

Re: Master’s degrees are the second biggest scam in higher education?

#100

Post by genewitch » Sat, Jul 17, 2021, 2:56 PM UTC

eralps wrote: post #87

I've yet to see a useful master's degree. Especially in the US and in STEM it seems like master's has just been a gate to the next thing. I have a master's and one of the biggest reasons behind my education was the opportunity in the US after the master's. Sole benefit of it has been the OPT (~3 years work visa). I learned small things here and there during my education but as an SWE I don't use them at all and I for…

Master's Degree in Social Work is required for licensing in the US (LCSW). To teach at a community college it's generally required to have a Master's degree as well.

"useful" is in the eye of the beholder. I would expect a company hiring manager to put a candidate with a Master's degree higher on the pile than those with high school or Bachelor's degrees, too.