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Master’s degrees are the second biggest scam in higher education?

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Re: Master’s degrees are the second biggest scam in higher education?

#61

Post by kitsune_ »

chrisseaton wrote: post #24
MikeDelta wrote: post #22

In Europe a Master's degree is a necessity for the (better) starter jobs in industry, but usually in the more common (traditional) fields like economics, law, engineering, or science.

But in these cases aren't undergraduate degrees normally three years, and a master's degree one? So that's four years total, which is what Americans do anyway. An American undergraduate plus masters is six years, which is absolutely insane. Let alone their PhDs, which mean you could easily end up 29 before you graduate. I had a friend in Europe who finished their PhD with top-tier publications in two years - much les…

I think academically the first year of an US undergraduate degree is probably more on the level of the last year of a European "high school" (lycee, gymnasium etc).

Re: Master’s degrees are the second biggest scam in higher education?

#62

Post by lumost »

tomrod wrote: post #9

I got my PhD in a field where you nonchalantly get a masters along the way (because masters degrees have an in-field glass ceiling). A terminal masters program was started by my program while I was in attendance. If you needed the education, it was billed as a professional degree and I think is put to good use. But if you had an undergraduate degree in the field and were not pursuing a PhD then it was just window dre…

It’s pretty ridiculous, but there are a bunch of fields gate keeped by these terminal masters programs regardless of undergraduate background or work experience.

E.g. most industrial fields that include scientist in the title. DS/AS roles in tech, Product management roles etc.

Re: Master’s degrees are the second biggest scam in higher education?

#64

Post by k__ »

wirthjason wrote: post #14

One of the key issues I see is that we don’t place a high enough value on adult education. A philosophy professor of mine told me the word “andragogy”, which is the theory of adult education. It’s different from “pedagogy” which means the education of children. I always thought that learning is learning. It never occurred to me that there’s a difference between how and why children learn and that it could be differen…

Is there also Gynagogy?

Re: Master’s degrees are the second biggest scam in higher education?

#65

Post by the_lonely_road »

lordnacho wrote: post #21
wirthjason wrote: post #14

One of the key issues I see is that we don’t place a high enough value on adult education. A philosophy professor of mine told me the word “andragogy”, which is the theory of adult education. It’s different from “pedagogy” which means the education of children. I always thought that learning is learning. It never occurred to me that there’s a difference between how and why children learn and that it could be differen…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folk_high_school In Denmark and some neighboring countries there's this concept of a school you can go to just to learn stuff later in life, as an ongoing thing. There's a whole bunch of themes (sports, history, etc), and often you can book yourself in for whatever amount of time makes sense for you.

We have community colleges in America that serve the exact same function. My parents love taking the astronomy courses because they come with an observatory. They have also some some criminal justice classes and a lot of art classes like pottery. They are very old. You also don’t get a degree for taking these courses but they are much cheaper than the classes are for degree track students.

Re: Master’s degrees are the second biggest scam in higher education?

#66

Post by MeinBlutIstBlau »

caseysoftware wrote: post #52
fallingknife wrote: post #17

When are we going to learn that encouraging everyone to get more education is a waste of resources? All it leads to is lowered standards and devalued degrees. Your credential is only worth something because someone else doesn't have it.

It's a qualification arms race. When very few people had college degrees, they were of high value because the programs were more likely to be rigorous. As US society said "higher education is the best path to success", it drove up demand where people who never would have considered college otherwise were pushed that way by teachers, guidance counselors, and parents. The high school system adjusted to launch more stud…

As a mid 20s returning college student, its definitely high school 2.0. I've talked to and tried to hit on many girls only to come to actually stop because their priorities are just way out of wack. Guys seem more mellow than in high school at least. But for the most part I encounter the "know it all" arrogance more from men. A lot of them just never failed hard in their lives before so they often think they can beat the system or what have you.

Re: Master’s degrees are the second biggest scam in higher education?

#67

Post by User23 »

lordnacho wrote: post #21
wirthjason wrote: post #14

One of the key issues I see is that we don’t place a high enough value on adult education. A philosophy professor of mine told me the word “andragogy”, which is the theory of adult education. It’s different from “pedagogy” which means the education of children. I always thought that learning is learning. It never occurred to me that there’s a difference between how and why children learn and that it could be differen…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folk_high_school In Denmark and some neighboring countries there's this concept of a school you can go to just to learn stuff later in life, as an ongoing thing. There's a whole bunch of themes (sports, history, etc), and often you can book yourself in for whatever amount of time makes sense for you.

Many if not most universities in the USA have extension schools that serve this purpose.

Re: Master’s degrees are the second biggest scam in higher education?

#68

Post by jltsiren »

chrisseaton wrote: post #24
MikeDelta wrote: post #22

In Europe a Master's degree is a necessity for the (better) starter jobs in industry, but usually in the more common (traditional) fields like economics, law, engineering, or science.

But in these cases aren't undergraduate degrees normally three years, and a master's degree one? So that's four years total, which is what Americans do anyway. An American undergraduate plus masters is six years, which is absolutely insane. Let alone their PhDs, which mean you could easily end up 29 before you graduate. I had a friend in Europe who finished their PhD with top-tier publications in two years - much les…

The typical structure is 3 years for the bachelor's degree and 2 years for the master's degree. In many countries, master's is the primary undergraduate degree, while bachelor's is considered a glorified dropout.

American undergraduate degrees often have plenty of classes unrelated to the major/minor subjects, while European degrees tend to be more focused. In some countries, those breadth requirements are considered a part of secondary education. While an American nominally starts a four-year degree at 18, a European may start a three-year degree at 19.

As for PhDs, they were traditionally considered more like certifications than degrees. You could graduate quickly if you managed to finish your thesis, but it was far more common to continue working on it well into your 30s. This has changed in the past decade or two, as universities started favoring short "American-style" PhDs, with the ideal to graduate before 30. (The British with their short PhDs were always an exception to this.)

Re: Master’s degrees are the second biggest scam in higher education?

#70

Post by chmod600 »

"We can’t just rely on the market to provide all of the quality discipline that master’s programs need."

It seems like if the federal government stopped lending for master's degrees, and allowed students to file for bankruptcy to get out of private loans, then the market might very well sort everything out.

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