Google Drive bans distribution of “misleading content” • Hacker News Board

Re: Google Drive bans distribution of “misleading content”

#921

Post by devwastaken » Sat, Jul 17, 2021, 12:53 PM UTC

u20210717 wrote: post #904

devwastaken wrote: post #861

Earlier quoted context omitted.

U.S. barely has "hate speech" laws, so I don't know what you're talking about there. "Big tech" decided to ban people for being hateful to others on their platforms. Those platforms don't exist for your protection against government actors. Nor should it.

What you're saying is "a company banning certain forms of speech on its platforms does not constitute censorship", which is true at least in the strict definition of "censorship", but does not contradict what the GP is saying. What the GP is talking about is a shift in American attitudes that leads to the acceptance of such policies, whereas in earlier times they might have been rejected or the companies in question…

I don't at all believe people would reject it. People have been censoring content for a long time in far worse manners. Early 90's had plenty of "obscenity law" enforced, Ronald Reagan and regulation of content in games and music was a thing. People cheered it on, and that was actual government censorship, not corporate.

People agree with censorship if it's in in agreement with their belief.

Re: Google Drive bans distribution of “misleading content”

#922

Post by fighterpilot » Sat, Jul 17, 2021, 1:03 PM UTC

crazygringo wrote: post #525

contravariant wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's something fundamentally flawed about the idea that censorship in the name of preventing misinformation is protecting the foundation of democracy. You cannot have true democracy if people cannot disagree with their governments, they must be able to disagree with any truth or opinion such a government might consider self-evident, just on the off chance they're right. I should at this point note that Google does…

> There's something fundamentally flawed There isn't really. You're adopting, I assume, J.S. Mill's view, that the cure for bad speech is more speech, which he famously published in 1859. However, since then it's been widely accepted that when speech reaches a certain level of harm then the greater good is to prevent/punish it. You can't incite violence under the guise of free speech. You can't advertise that somethi…

> the greater good is to prevent/punish it.

It's clear that a handful of genocides were caused in large part by hate speech, such as the Rwandan genocide and the Holocaust.

What's not clear to me (although I'm open either way) is whether strict hate speech laws would've reduced the odds of these happening. Do we have reason to think that to be true?

The first order effect is to chill that kind of speech. But is there a second order effect of making these people into martyrs and fostering resentment towards the protected group that does more harm than good?

My understanding is that pre-Nazi Germany had hate speech laws, and it didn't seem to work there?

https://www.bjpa.org/content/upload/bjpa/4_an/4_Anti-Semitis...

Re: Google Drive bans distribution of “misleading content”

#923

Post by vegetablepotpie » Sat, Jul 17, 2021, 1:21 PM UTC

ibbibby wrote: post #748

"Misinformation" is just another word for "falsehood" or "untruth." Those of you claiming that "democracy" depends on authorities preventing the spread of misinformation are ipso facto saying that democracy requires the government, or megacorporate cartels with a monopoly on public speech most likely acting as proxies for the government (as Psaki made clear is happening), to define what counts as "truth" (a Ministry…

A good democracy depends on its citizens being able to discuss issues with one another. If we disagree on basic incontrovertible facts, such as where someone was born, or what the measured efficacy of a treatment for a disease is, conversations with each other do not have value and we cannot have a democracy.

This is just the free market doing its job.

Re: Google Drive bans distribution of “misleading content”

#924

Post by concordDance » Sat, Jul 17, 2021, 1:27 PM UTC

Steltek wrote: post #493

contravariant wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's something fundamentally flawed about the idea that censorship in the name of preventing misinformation is protecting the foundation of democracy. You cannot have true democracy if people cannot disagree with their governments, they must be able to disagree with any truth or opinion such a government might consider self-evident, just on the off chance they're right. I should at this point note that Google does…

What would you do to combat the deliberate misinformation campaign that is weakening the US and many other countries? While propaganda and polarization are not new, the speed, reach, and aggregation are only possible with modern communication. An early tidbit that may have been lost with deplatforming was that Euro leaders also disagreed, citing that only the state could be trusted with that power. However, the US Co…

> What would you do to combat the deliberate misinformation campaign that is weakening the US and many other countries?

Which one? Plenty of candidates depending on which part of the political space your views lie in.

Is it the misinformation campaign that Trump won the last election? The one that says third world immigration is good? The one that says Democracy is good? The one that says COVID is harmless?

If there were some Oracle that could tell us what is true or false then this wouldn't be an issue in the first place.

Re: Google Drive bans distribution of “misleading content”

#925

Post by shadowgovt » Sat, Jul 17, 2021, 1:29 PM UTC

machinehermiter wrote: post #868

ibbibby wrote: post #748

"Misinformation" is just another word for "falsehood" or "untruth." Those of you claiming that "democracy" depends on authorities preventing the spread of misinformation are ipso facto saying that democracy requires the government, or megacorporate cartels with a monopoly on public speech most likely acting as proxies for the government (as Psaki made clear is happening), to define what counts as "truth" (a Ministry…

So much of the populace has a digital IV drip of constant connection to algorithmic political slogan propaganda machines. If people consume propaganda all day everyday you can't blame them for being highly propagandized. What else can we possibly expect than this to happen? I honestly see no evidence that open society is compatible with modern digital communication networks. An authoritarian contagion almost seems an…

There's plenty of room for the cyberpunk heroes, but I can't name a single such story where the hero was a megacorp.

Google is a mega corporation. If the world is trending cyberpunk, they're going to be the Arasaka of the story, not the Hiro.

Re: Google Drive bans distribution of “misleading content”

#926

Post by concordDance » Sat, Jul 17, 2021, 1:34 PM UTC

wwweston wrote: post #799

wutbrodo wrote: post #725

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All our legal protections ultimately depend on a democratic foundation -- undo that with misinformation and you don't have anything anymore. Similarly, your rights don't matter much if you're dead. This is an insane conclusion to draw, because it blithely ignores that it positions Google as an oracle of what's threatening to democracy and what isn't. The examples in the current policy are fairly narrow, but this is…

It's funny to see people freak out about this when entire foundation of Google is built on the proposition that it can make effective judgments about the relative value of various content out there on the web. Like, if Google has a hidden agenda here that makes it any more fundamentally compromised as a judge of disinformation than anything else, then whether or not it will be a free CDN for arbitrary content isn't r…

> Like, if Google has a hidden agenda here that makes it any more fundamentally compromised as a judge of disinformation than anything else, then whether or not it will be a free CDN for arbitrary content isn't remotely our biggest problem.

Indeed, the bias in Google Search is actually a very serious problem.

Re: Google Drive bans distribution of “misleading content”

#927

Post by concordDance » Sat, Jul 17, 2021, 1:40 PM UTC

crazygringo wrote: post #388

I see a lot of comments misinterpreting this. First, it's not about private files, it's about distributing content. Google isn't spying on your private files, but does scan them when you share them publicly. E.g. keep all the pirated movies you want on your Drive, and even give private access to friends, but the moment you make them publicly viewable Google scans them and limits access accordingly. So no, this isn't…

> notice that the two main categories here are related to democracy and health

Funny you should mention health... Imagine if Google banned speaking out against Cryonics or life extension technologies on this basis.

Re: Google Drive bans distribution of “misleading content”

#928

Post by pixl97 » Sat, Jul 17, 2021, 1:46 PM UTC

FeepingCreature wrote: post #830

thrwoi4234234 wrote: post #769

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's actually worse - the "truth" necessarily implies that there is but one, and that everything else in false. Does this sound familiar ? This is exactly what religious loonies say in order to take control. Science necessarily involves keeping your own ignorance, epistemic and otherwise, in mind while dealing with things, but it's quite worrying that the West is going back on what was won with blood and sweat.

I believe there is only one truth, and everything else is false. But I also believe humans do not have access to it.

I call this thermodynamic truth.

And while it is the sole arbiter of truth, the moment something occurs that truth starts decaying via entropy. Photons fly away at light speed never to be seen by us again. The energy that remains starts mixing in ways that cannot be reversed. You quickly lead to scenarios where more than one initial state could lead to the current state we can measure.

And worse we can never exist in a system where we capture and keep this information. You either alter the 'experiment' by measuring it, aka chaos theory. Or, you bring about the premature heat death of the universe.

Re: Google Drive bans distribution of “misleading content”

#929

Post by samiran149 » Sat, Jul 17, 2021, 1:51 PM UTC

ibbibby wrote: post #748

"Misinformation" is just another word for "falsehood" or "untruth." Those of you claiming that "democracy" depends on authorities preventing the spread of misinformation are ipso facto saying that democracy requires the government, or megacorporate cartels with a monopoly on public speech most likely acting as proxies for the government (as Psaki made clear is happening), to define what counts as "truth" (a Ministry…

Agreed, its important to note that these modern day, illiberals couch a lot of their phraseology in sophomoric nuance.

"XXXX statement is misinformation, because it lacks context" "XXXX statement is misinformation, because it is still up for debate" "XXXX statement is misinformation, because it is offensive to class YYYY" "XXXX statement is misinformation, because it is unfair to person ZZZZ"

These are logical fallacies presented as civility. Applying them uniformly would me desperately wrong. Having double standards, and applying them based on partisan bias is nothing short of evil.

Glenn Greenwald said it best. If you are okay with these practices, you are a political authoritarian. No other information is needed to determine this about you.

Re: Google Drive bans distribution of “misleading content”

#930

Post by samiran149 » Sat, Jul 17, 2021, 1:53 PM UTC

1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #918

ibbibby wrote: post #748

"Misinformation" is just another word for "falsehood" or "untruth." Those of you claiming that "democracy" depends on authorities preventing the spread of misinformation are ipso facto saying that democracy requires the government, or megacorporate cartels with a monopoly on public speech most likely acting as proxies for the government (as Psaki made clear is happening), to define what counts as "truth" (a Ministry…

Except the term "misinformation" appears nowhere on the page https://support.google.com/docs/answer/148505 Instead it refers to "misleading information". Absent a specific definition of "misinformation" from Google's lawyers -- who likely authored or at least reviewed this page -- we are left to consult the dictionary. The dictionary defines "misinformation" as "information that is incorrect". There is no requirement…

Is it possible to have correct information (~ "misinformation") that is intended to or does mislead ("misleading information"). Your answer: ___

No need to answer this question. The technodemocratic complex has already answered it. It's tawdry, but the hunter biden laptop was "misinformation", because it was intended to mislead people away from Biden.

Doesn't matter that it was correct, the evidence was good, and it was published by major newspapers. The technical elite agreed with the political elite, and it was struck from the internet.

Amazingly, when it was raised at the presidential debate, real-time polling suggested that the majority of the populace had no idea what was being talked about. The suppression was effective.

We live in dangerous times.