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Google parts with Cloud VP over his manifesto renouncing his antisemitism

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Re: Google parts with Cloud VP over his manifesto renouncing his antisemitism

#21

Post by PragmaticPulp »

We definitely don’t have the full story in situations like this. Google can’t and won’t provide their side of the story because it’s internal company HR business. Meanwhile, the employee can and will use LinkedIn to shape the narrative in a way that is beneficial to their reputation.

Is the LinkedIn post renouncing their anti-semitism a spontaneous act that triggered the firing? Or were they internally in trouble with HR and the LinkedIn post renouncing antisemitism was a last-minute attempt to get ahead of an issue that could damage their career? We can’t know, but I suggest being careful whenever someone expertly and publicly spins themselves as the victim in a situation like this.

Either way, a company’s hands are virtually tied when someone publicly makes declarations like this:

> “I hated the Jewish people, all the Jewish people”!

And that same person is responsible for matters of customer relations and/or managing internal employees. Whether or not he genuinely renounced his beliefs, making a statement like that adds suspicion on top of past and even future actions by this person. When (not if) he has to make a difficult decision or take an unpopular action involving Jewish customers or employees, they will always wonder how much his public declaration of past hatred for Jewish people was a factor.

Re: Google parts with Cloud VP over his manifesto renouncing his antisemitism

#22

Post by howaboutnope »

partiallypro wrote: post #9

I don't understand this new culture of not allowing people to have redemption. The past isn't the present or future. People change, that is what is so problematic with "cancel culture," and digging up old tweets, etc.

> There's just something unsustainable about an environment that demands constant atonement but actively disdains the very idea of forgiveness.

-- Elisabeth Bruenig

Re: Google parts with Cloud VP over his manifesto renouncing his antisemitism

#23

Post by vorpalhex »

VikingCoder wrote: post #6
websites2023 wrote: post #2

Awadallah will land on his feet, but what signal does this send to other holders of hateful ideologies? To me, the signal is: “You can’t change. Not really. If you ever held a heterodox view, ever expressed that view in any medium at any time in you life, or were caught in our surveillance capitalist nightmare systems doing so, you’re dead to us.” How does that inspire anyone to change their view?

I think we're going to get to the point where people only share their views on sensitive manners in anonymous / pseudo-anonymous forums, so they can't be linked to you. That's not necessarily terrible.

If your goal is to redeem people instead of punish them, it's terrible. We want people to give up hate and rejoin society.

Re: Google parts with Cloud VP over his manifesto renouncing his antisemitism

#24

Post by Simulacra »

My takeaway from this if you've ever done or said something bad in the past, bury it. Don't ever bring it up again. Don't confess to it, don't talk about how you've changed, just bury it. Your past is an empty black hole, because otherwise it seems, you're damned if you do, damned if you don't. This guy should be applauded for recognizing his own hatred, and how he's changed and left that hate behind. Instead, he loses his job.

Is forgiveness and growing from our mistakes completely dead now?

Re: Google parts with Cloud VP over his manifesto renouncing his antisemitism

#25

Post by andrewzah »

VikingCoder wrote: post #6
websites2023 wrote: post #2

Awadallah will land on his feet, but what signal does this send to other holders of hateful ideologies? To me, the signal is: “You can’t change. Not really. If you ever held a heterodox view, ever expressed that view in any medium at any time in you life, or were caught in our surveillance capitalist nightmare systems doing so, you’re dead to us.” How does that inspire anyone to change their view?

I think we're going to get to the point where people only share their views on sensitive manners in anonymous / pseudo-anonymous forums, so they can't be linked to you. That's not necessarily terrible.

I think it is terrible for society in the long term. We can post anonymously for now, but that may become much more difficult in the future.

We need to encourage a society that takes words into context, and assumes good faith instead of imagining the worst possible interpretation of everything. Similarly, we need to encourage people changing their views. Casting out anyone who said something bad, ever, independent of any character growth or changes of opinion as one becomes more knowledgeable, is going to lead to people continuing to hold horrible views... just in private.

Right now there is zero incentive to publicly apologize about anything or change one's opinion because people don't care about that, they just want punitive actions taken regardless of any changes afterwards. That doesn't really help address the underlying issues of racism, -isms, etc, at all....

Re: Google parts with Cloud VP over his manifesto renouncing his antisemitism

#26

Post by weezin »

VikingCoder wrote: post #6
websites2023 wrote: post #2

Awadallah will land on his feet, but what signal does this send to other holders of hateful ideologies? To me, the signal is: “You can’t change. Not really. If you ever held a heterodox view, ever expressed that view in any medium at any time in you life, or were caught in our surveillance capitalist nightmare systems doing so, you’re dead to us.” How does that inspire anyone to change their view?

I think we're going to get to the point where people only share their views on sensitive manners in anonymous / pseudo-anonymous forums, so they can't be linked to you. That's not necessarily terrible.

It is an issue if those forums are echo chambers blinding people to the outside world or opposing viewpoints.

Re: Google parts with Cloud VP over his manifesto renouncing his antisemitism

#27

Post by brodouevencode »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #21

We definitely don’t have the full story in situations like this. Google can’t and won’t provide their side of the story because it’s internal company HR business. Meanwhile, the employee can and will use LinkedIn to shape the narrative in a way that is beneficial to their reputation. Is the LinkedIn post renouncing their anti-semitism a spontaneous act that triggered the firing? Or were they internally in trouble wit…

You may not be wrong (to your point, no one knows), but is such a cynical approach beneficial?

Re: Google parts with Cloud VP over his manifesto renouncing his antisemitism

#28

Post by foolinaround »

mfer wrote: post #13

If we look at things in terms of positive and negative reinforcement this has some interesting consequences. So, he admitted to antisemitism in the past and shared how he has grown or is growing past it. This kind of admission by him has the ability to challenge other and positively reinforce others who are in a similar situation to him. That _positive_ reinforcement for change away from antisemitism. He was pushed o…

damned if you do, damned if you don't!!

Re: Google parts with Cloud VP over his manifesto renouncing his antisemitism

#29

Post by missedthecue »

mfer wrote: post #13

If we look at things in terms of positive and negative reinforcement this has some interesting consequences. So, he admitted to antisemitism in the past and shared how he has grown or is growing past it. This kind of admission by him has the ability to challenge other and positively reinforce others who are in a similar situation to him. That _positive_ reinforcement for change away from antisemitism. He was pushed o…

Don't ask, don't tell: racism edition

Re: Google parts with Cloud VP over his manifesto renouncing his antisemitism

#30

Post by andrewzah »

JohnHaugeland wrote: post #7
josh_today wrote: post #3

This is the type of change we need to celebrate in people not further scrutinize! As a Jew I would love to create dialogue with a person who realized the past hate was unjust, to hear why the hate existed and more importantly to understand what opened their eyes. It is that process that will help eliminate hate across the board. Today as a society we approach discrimination through censorship and cancel culture which…

Read what he said and then say this again with a straight face

People say a lot of things when they're fed propaganda. It's arrogant to assume that you or I wouldn't say or think problematic things if we were fed propaganda our entire lives from our community, etc, and didn't interact with other people. In other words, being ignorant.

Things like racism are largely defeated through education. We don't know the full story here with this guy, but it's certainly possible for people to hold bigoted beliefs at one point in their life and then change views after becoming more knowledgeable.

A large portion of people act like once someone says something, their belief will never ever change and thus are irredeemable to society. I'm sure that's good for society in the long run. /s

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