Launch HN: Weekday (YC W21) – Hire engineers vouched for by other engineers • Hacker News Board

Re: Launch HN: Weekday (YC W21) – Hire engineers vouched for by other engineers

#61

Post by gregdoesit » Fri, Jul 16, 2021, 8:07 AM UTC

The business model of Weekday will have issues with opt-in and compliance on markets like the EU where their approach will breach GDPR by storing personal data for people who have not opted into this.

I have received an email from Weekday to my personal email address that I do not share anywhere in public.

When I asked the team where they have bought/obtained my data, I was told:

“We do not buy data at all. We get information about our candidates from individuals using our chrome extension and recommending candidates to us via LinkedIn. Therefore, your information has come through a LinkedIn recommendation.”

While the approach is creative growth hacking, storing my data (name, email and who knows what else) by using a Chrome extension to harvest data I thought would be private does not seem ethical. It’s not something I am happy about either, and it’s definitely something that is not GDPR compliant.

Re: Launch HN: Weekday (YC W21) – Hire engineers vouched for by other engineers

#62

Post by beachy » Fri, Jul 16, 2021, 9:07 AM UTC

amitsy wrote: post #60

beachy wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The recruitment industry has always had parallels to dating. We have two parties who don't want their time wasted, but want to get together as quickly as possible if it's a good match, while maintaining their dignity and their privacy. The industry is permanently grappling with ways to make this process scalable. The road is littered with the dead hulks of companies that felt like they had cracked the code. Yet still…

This is awesome! There are so many gems here that even if pick up 50% of it and deliver on it, we would be golden. This is probably the most nuanced advise I have received on the sector/our approach and I would have spoken to 100+ VCs and other people doing recruitment. HN is great

Good luck to you. I realized I wrote "no much money" to be made, whereas I meant the opposite, so go get it.

Re: Launch HN: Weekday (YC W21) – Hire engineers vouched for by other engineers

#63

Post by throwaaskjdfh » Fri, Jul 16, 2021, 12:25 PM UTC

octodog wrote: post #55

What steps do you take to prevent bias or systemic discrimination (intentional or not) from impacting recommendations?

Recommendations and referrals strike me as one of the ways that groups with an unintentional diversity problem end up persisting it. The composition of the group gets carried forward as people vouch for each other.

The summary mentions "scroll[ing] their LinkedIn connections", but relying too heavily on this sort of thing puts people with no connections at a disadvantage, and actually makes it more difficult for a cohort trying to address a diversity problem to do so.

Re: Launch HN: Weekday (YC W21) – Hire engineers vouched for by other engineers

#64

Post by foreigner » Fri, Jul 16, 2021, 12:57 PM UTC

Nepotism as a service!

Re: Launch HN: Weekday (YC W21) – Hire engineers vouched for by other engineers

#65

Post by vbtemp » Fri, Jul 16, 2021, 1:42 PM UTC

beachy wrote: post #49

tomhallett wrote: post #30

When I "vouch" for a friend, what happens on the friend's side? Am I opting them in to getting email(s) from weekday? If so, that seems slightly odd that I'm going through my top 10 friends on linked-in, vouching for them so that they are now going to get some a cold email(s), but I have no insight if those 10 people are looking for jobs and want this email at all. I'm pretty much saying to my friends "Hey, I just ga…

The recruitment industry has always had parallels to dating. We have two parties who don't want their time wasted, but want to get together as quickly as possible if it's a good match, while maintaining their dignity and their privacy. The industry is permanently grappling with ways to make this process scalable. The road is littered with the dead hulks of companies that felt like they had cracked the code. Yet still…

This is a really interesting and thoughtful read, thank you.

I'm curious why solutions that satisfy those bulleted items you mention don't exist? Whether for dating or opportunity-talent-matchmaking.

My hunch is that there's some perverse incentives that keep us stuck in a local maxima. I don't use any of the dating apps, but I would think it's fair to say that the popular apps and networks are an extremely soul-sucking, relentless grind.... but yet, they stay popular, and innovative alternatives aren't really taking off en masse. Why?

I guess here are a few thoughts:

- This reflects the absolutely massive asymmetries and inequalities that infect everything. It sometimes seems like there is no "average" anymore - everything is bi-modal. There are the FAANG total comps, and the total comps of everyone else - with a huge gap between them. Massive wealth gap for people have have been invested in real estate and/or stocks for a while, and those that have not been. And in dating: The massive gap in desirability between young or attractive women - and everyone else (for example, it's not like an attractive 25-year-old woman gets twice as many messages as, say a 25 year old male.. she'll get literally a thousand times more)

- In a globalized, massive, and mostly anonymous marketplace, there is little incentive to constrain oneself to cooperate. And this includes preferring free-for-all networks over ones that "enforce" cooperation. For recruiters: I suppose spamming endlessly, while not pleasant, is probably a local maxima. Being a cooperative agent (reducing spam, investing more in each possible connection) just reduces their chances of getting a catch. I'd imagine a similar things for males in a dating market.

Re: Launch HN: Weekday (YC W21) – Hire engineers vouched for by other engineers

#66

Post by sumtechguy » Fri, Jul 16, 2021, 1:42 PM UTC

Fjolsvith wrote: post #4

MrBuddyCasino wrote: post #2

How do you seed & grow the network? How do you identify and vet the engineers on whose recommendations you rely?

I.e. Good ole boy's club.

Interesting take. But when looking for a job sometimes your 'network' is a good place too look.

I personally have worked with many people. Some are on my 'just hire them, dont worry about it list'. There are others on my 'do not hire them ever they will destroy any group they end up in' list. There are also 'yeah they will do ok, but meh' list. I personally put myself in the 3rd list.

I also am no longer interested in sharing that info for free to companies that are trying to break into the same space as linkedin.

Hiring is broken big time. But this does not look like it fixes much. The real issue in many companies is a lack of understanding from HR what the manager needs. Even sometimes the manager does not even really know. Or HR has an ideal they want and think there are other qualities that 'fit the form'. From someone who is hiring how would this system cut out the cruft of 'ok I have a random resume sent in how do I know it is any good?' No amount of internet points helps me say 'yeah that is a good one'.

Re: Launch HN: Weekday (YC W21) – Hire engineers vouched for by other engineers

#67

Post by xyzzy21 » Fri, Jul 16, 2021, 10:23 PM UTC

beachy wrote: post #49

tomhallett wrote: post #30

When I "vouch" for a friend, what happens on the friend's side? Am I opting them in to getting email(s) from weekday? If so, that seems slightly odd that I'm going through my top 10 friends on linked-in, vouching for them so that they are now going to get some a cold email(s), but I have no insight if those 10 people are looking for jobs and want this email at all. I'm pretty much saying to my friends "Hey, I just ga…

The recruitment industry has always had parallels to dating. We have two parties who don't want their time wasted, but want to get together as quickly as possible if it's a good match, while maintaining their dignity and their privacy. The industry is permanently grappling with ways to make this process scalable. The road is littered with the dead hulks of companies that felt like they had cracked the code. Yet still…

Personally I NEVER want my vouching for or receiving of vouching to be automated - by definition that's not vouching. It never can be.

I can never trust anything but the person with whom I have a history.

I would never drop an endorsement and stand behind it without that history and assurance that I was right.

There are some companies that I would never hire an ex-employee from unless I had two people I've know for a while vouching for them - it's their reputation and our history together that justifying my trust in their endorsement and that can ONLY be an interpersonal relationship as its basis. Anything else is just some random acquaintance or stranger making a claim.

It's ONLY the personal history that enables vouching to work. And it's the EXISTING relationship that is more important than the welfare or benefit of ANY vouchee!

Some things simple DO NOT NEED to be automated and probably SHOULD NOT be.