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Aaronsw indicted for hacking MIT network to download millions of JSTOR docs

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Re: Aaronsw indicted for hacking MIT network to download millions of JSTOR docs

#311

Post by doki_pen »

anigbrowl wrote: post #102
_delirium wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wasn't really commenting on the legal sufficiency of the indictment, just the rhetorical dishonesty of accusing someone of "steal[ing] well over 4,000,000 articles from JSTOR" (quote from the indictment) when JSTOR didn't own those articles. They could've just alleged violation of JSTOR's TOS and thereby theft of network services. I suspect JSTOR or people sympathetic to them had a hand in writing the indictment, t…

Well, if someone stole $100,000 of property from a storage facility, that wouldn't mean the storage facility claimed ownership of the property, just that it was the location of the theft. Maybe you're overthinking this a bit.

Except that copyright infringement is definitely not theft. The owner doesn't lose his documents. It's fine if your opinion is that copyright infringement is wrong, but let's not call it by inappropriate names.

Re: Aaronsw indicted for hacking MIT network to download millions of JSTOR docs

#312

Post by doki_pen »

mbreese wrote: post #72
_delirium wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wasn't really commenting on the legal sufficiency of the indictment, just the rhetorical dishonesty of accusing someone of "steal[ing] well over 4,000,000 articles from JSTOR" (quote from the indictment) when JSTOR didn't own those articles. They could've just alleged violation of JSTOR's TOS and thereby theft of network services. I suspect JSTOR or people sympathetic to them had a hand in writing the indictment, t…

> somehow "owns" its archive It does own its archive. They just may not own the exclusive copyright to the contents of the archive... there is a subtle distinction.

By that logic nothing was stolen. They still own their archives.

Re: Aaronsw indicted for hacking MIT network to download millions of JSTOR docs

#313

Post by nitrogen »

runningdogx wrote: post #34

This is the most technically competent charging document I've ever read. I guess there must have been some hackers on the grand jury. Paragraph 35 & 36: which "protected computer" on MIT's network did he access? Certainly they're not trying to claim his laptop was a protected computer? Are they talking about the DHCP server or whatever registration frontend MIT has for the DHCP assignments? I have trouble with the co…

I don't like the fact that just about any misbehavior on the internet becomes a federal case because the probability of no interstate resources being used is very low.

So is that why Comcast routes traffic to networks 30 miles away across three states and back?

Re: Aaronsw indicted for hacking MIT network to download millions of JSTOR docs

#314

Post by nitrogen »

troutwine wrote: post #16

The indictment asserts that Mr. Swartz intended to distribute the files downloaded but did not substantiate this claim. I wonder what proof they have of this? (There are, of course, a great many laws dealing with probable intent that need only convince a jury of said intent without demonstrating it's validity.)

I've heard that, in drug law, possession of more than a certain amount is automatically interpreted as intent to distribute. Maybe the prosecutors in this case intend to argue something similar based on the nature or quantity of the documents retrieved.

Re: Aaronsw indicted for hacking MIT network to download millions of JSTOR docs

#315

Post by Donald »

hadley wrote: post #273
Homunculiheaded wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even among state universities access to electronic journals for guests is becoming increasingly rare (usually prohibited in the license agreement). Also if you look to much into how scholarly communications works, the idea of charging 50k is insane since that vast majority of the cost of journals are actually paid for by universities in the first place. edit: although I do agree with your point that in with the curre…

But many state schools let you join the library even if you're not a student. e.g. http://www.lib.iastate.edu/info/6197 - $20/year for a non-affiliated member.

ISU's extramural borrower card doesn't allow holders remote access to (paid) academic databases.

Re: Aaronsw indicted for hacking MIT network to download millions of JSTOR docs

#316

Post by pmb »

keane wrote: post #154
ojbyrne wrote: post #98

From the JSTOR website ( http://about.jstor.org/participate-jstor/worldwide-access ) "Our ultimate long-term objective is to make JSTOR available to everyone who wants access to it, while doing so in a way that ensures sustainability of the service." Cynically, it seems like the bit about "ensures sustainability" can be translated as "we will aggressively prosecute in order to protect our bloated salaries."

The salaries of Ithaka Harbors Inc. (JSTOR's holding company), a supposedly not-for-profit organisation are indeed bloated. See pp. 7-8, 23, 26 of http://www.guidestar.org/FinDocuments/2009/133/857/2009-1338...

For those that don't like reading, the document describes multiple employees of the "nonprofit" with compensation in excess of 200k.

Re: Aaronsw indicted for hacking MIT network to download millions of JSTOR docs

#317

Post by andreyf »

andreyf wrote: post #235
stephth wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That does shed a new light to their statement. Seems like both parties made some lousy calls which led to a very ugly situation. I don't understand the legal mechanisms that could lead to JSTOR not showing any public support for Aaron, and if those exist, but I hope they will show some support during the process (as well as the MIT). Gov shouldn't put digital theft in the same basket as physical theft.

There are no legal mechanisms, but showing support for someone that intended to destroy the value of their publisher's copyright would probably displease their partners...

Err, I should have said "someone who is accused of intending..."

Re: Aaronsw indicted for hacking MIT network to download millions of JSTOR docs

#318

Post by kragen »

roel_v wrote: post #302
kragen wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, thanks for finding that error! I think you're thinking very much of US salaries. $40,000 a year shouldn't be a lot of money for a public library in the US , because it's the salary for a single employee (or the total costs for half an employee!), and the wonderful public library system in the US does indeed have multiple libraries. But world GDP per person is about US$10k per year, compared to the US's US$47k — a…

So a Mercedes should cost 1/10th in Zimbabwe of what it does in the West, if people make 1/10th there?

I was rebutting a factual claim ("Most public libraries have relationships with JSTOR that allow members to access the articles online"), not a normative one. An analogous factual claim might be that most Zimbabweans drive Mercedes. Even without having access to Mercedes's sales figures by nation, that ought to appear unlikely to you?

Re: Aaronsw indicted for hacking MIT network to download millions of JSTOR docs

#319

Post by jacquesm »

flocial wrote: post #299

It's hard to trivialize downloading 4 million articles using a web scraper's bag of tricks and then some. If the information was publicly accessible these charges wouldn't stand unless he tried to distribute it. If it was something so commendable, why would you cloak your activities or go to a different university to do your dirt instead of Harvard (where your a fellow of some sort) or Stanford (where you attended).…

> However, it's no one's fault that Aaron was so emboldened to take this initiative without sufficiently ensuring that he would be free from criminal prosecution.

Maybe he did it knowing full well what the consequences might be. He seems to be a pretty principled guy.

Re: Aaronsw indicted for hacking MIT network to download millions of JSTOR docs

#320

Post by dgreensp »

herdrick wrote: post #239
dgreensp wrote: post #136

What Aaron did sounds seriously sketchy (sneaking into MIT wiring closets, trying to download the entire database, etc.), a fact that Demand Progress and several commenters here seem to be ignoring. Defending his actions would require a very strong, multi-pronged version of the argument "if it's physically / technologically possible, it must be ok." Can MIT legally limit guest access to its network? Can JSTOR limit a…

Thanks for the dissenting opinion. Is this worse than the sort of thing that goes on in the early days of most startups, including our most revered? People around here have a lot of respect for pg, rtm, tlb and their startup Viaweb - go back to "Founders at Work" and read how they got computer time needed to get the startup going. That kind of thing is practically universal in startups. The good ones, anyway. So Aaro…

Well, this again is a very hacker-centric perspective. Even if it's truly important that someone be able to surreptitiously copy all of JSTOR once in a while for the sake of innovation, who is in a position to let him off based on that?

Plus, putting everything else aside and evaluating him as a hacker, he doesn't come out looking too good. If he'd scraped all of JSTOR without getting caught, it would make a better story. As it is, he attracted a lot of attention, and the report of how he was caught has an air of inevitability to it. JSTOR called up MIT, MIT was looking for him, and he gave them a lot of time to find him.

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