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Tech workers swore off the Bay Area, now they’re coming back

nytimes.com

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Re: Tech workers swore off the Bay Area, now they’re coming back

#101

Post by djrogers »

renewiltord wrote: post #70

I live in Austin right now after almost a decade in the Bay. It's nice and I can see why people like it: it's got more of the kind of vibe which lets you raise a family - very suburban, relatively cheap (wrt the Bay Area), people will say hi on the street, stuff like that. San Francisco is a city , though, as small as it is, in a way that Austin isn't, as big as it is. Just like London and New York City are in a diff…

> Texas politics, which leaks to Austin, is very top-down big-government. SF and maybe CA politics is more personal freedom.

I don't see that at all. California is one of the hardest places in the country to run a small business. It's #1 or #2 in high taxes every year. California very restrictive and proscriptive land use laws (Rent control, permitting requirements, mandatory building laws, etc). California also has some of the strictest professional/occupational licensing laws in the country.

Unless you're only focused on getting booze delivered and buying pot, almost anything you want to do is cheaper, easier, and more legal in Texas.

Re: Tech workers swore off the Bay Area, now they’re coming back

#102

Post by happyopossum »

gamblor956 wrote: post #81
oceanplexian wrote: post #57

I'd love to come back, but the problem isn't with the city, it's the political situation. Who wants to start a company or a business if the local government can arbitrarily shut down your office for several months? Who wants to live in a city that could shut down bars, restaurants, and theaters for a year. I'd rather make my own decisions based on my personal health situation. For several months a vaccinated individu…

So you don't want to do business in CA, NY, Europe, Great Britain, Singapore, China, India, Australia, New Zealand, or Mexico, to name a few? Basically, you don't want to start a business in any of the world's biggest economies, or in the places with the best tech scenes or financing opportunities? Activities were shutdown because of a massive global pandemic the likes of which the world hasn't seen for over a centur…

> And you're leaving/left because you had to wear a face mask?

You really shouldn't put words in the author's mouth. They very clearly said:

> government can arbitrarily shut down your office for several months

and

> a city that could shut down bars, restaurants, and theaters for a year

There are a number of states that managed to keep schools, restaurants, and barbershops open without having worse outcomes than California did. And when the state chose to ignore the CDC for an entire month and keep things locked down, even for vaccinated people, it kinda pushed a lot of people over the edge.

Re: Tech workers swore off the Bay Area, now they’re coming back

#103

Post by gamblor956 »

oceanplexian wrote: post #99
gamblor956 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you don't want to do business in CA, NY, Europe, Great Britain, Singapore, China, India, Australia, New Zealand, or Mexico, to name a few? Basically, you don't want to start a business in any of the world's biggest economies, or in the places with the best tech scenes or financing opportunities? Activities were shutdown because of a massive global pandemic the likes of which the world hasn't seen for over a centur…

The refusal to follow the CDC guidelines for vaccinated individuals and masks was simply a good example of a government that was/is not interested in following the science, and demonstrates that CA is not going to act rationally in a public health situation. That's not an environment I would want to risk starting a business or investing in.

It sounds like you have an ideological issue rather than a scientific one.

CA's lockdowns were based on scientific evidence that COVID19 spreads through the air. Requiring masks was based on that evidence. As there were a lot of scientific unknowns during the past year, the lockdowns were overly broad as a matter of necessity--nobody knew how bad it could get. Moreover, CA's refusal to stick to the lackadaisal CDC guidelines was based heavily on the Trump administration's politicization of COVID19, and especially on the CDC's missteps at the beginning of the COVID19 crisis (i.e., when they were originally advising people not to wear masks...because they wanted to save them for medical workers and had neglected to make purchase orders for masks).

Requiring masks after vaccination was required for several months because it wasn't yet known how effective vaccinations would be in the real world. Once that data was established, the mask mandate ended for the vaccinated.

Also, note that the vaccinated can still get and spread COVID19, especially the newer strains like delta, they simply won't suffer severe symptoms if they do get infected.

If you don't want to live in an environment like CA where science and public health plays a role in decision-making, it's probably for the best that you're not living in CA.

Re: Tech workers swore off the Bay Area, now they’re coming back

#104

Post by gamblor956 »

happyopossum wrote: post #102
gamblor956 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you don't want to do business in CA, NY, Europe, Great Britain, Singapore, China, India, Australia, New Zealand, or Mexico, to name a few? Basically, you don't want to start a business in any of the world's biggest economies, or in the places with the best tech scenes or financing opportunities? Activities were shutdown because of a massive global pandemic the likes of which the world hasn't seen for over a centur…

> And you're leaving/left because you had to wear a face mask? You really shouldn't put words in the author's mouth. They very clearly said: > government can arbitrarily shut down your office for several months and > a city that could shut down bars, restaurants, and theaters for a year There are a number of states that managed to keep schools, restaurants, and barbershops open without having worse outcomes than Cali…

government can arbitrarily shut down your office for several months

Not arbitrary. Based on evidence that COVID19 is airborne, and that standard office/business filters were insufficient to filter out the virus, most indoor businesses were closed down to limit the spread except those deemed "essential."

There are a number of states that managed to keep schools, restaurants, and barbershops open without having worse outcomes than California did.

That's not true at all. On a per capita basis, those states ended up having significantly higher infection rates and death rates.

Re: Tech workers swore off the Bay Area, now they’re coming back

#105

Post by atatatat »

oceanplexian wrote: post #63
dcolkitt wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently founded an early stage startup. The only reason I can proffer is imposter syndrome. There’s a certain nagging feeling that we’ll never be a “real startup” until we have offices in the Bay Area. And sometimes that views externalized by others. You run into a scenario where you’re talking to someone who’s excited about your tech and vision. Then you mention you’re located in suburban Florida and their enthus…

I was in Miami early this year. Every one of the local coworking spaces were booked full with people working on tech and there were no COVID restrictions. The things I loved about SF seemed to be happening in Miami, lots of diverse cultures, food, bars, and people socializing. I visited SF a few weeks ago and it felt like the energy was gone. The Financial District was dead, as if it was still March 2020.

> The things I loved about SF seemed to be happening in Miami

Almost like smart people can smart anywhere there's a beach.

Re: Tech workers swore off the Bay Area, now they’re coming back

#107

Post by muzz »

prohobo wrote: post #13

Honest question: why would any new tech entrepreneur want to move to SF? The prices suck, and if you need to improve your network you can meet the vast majority of tech people online (IRC, Discord, email, online conferences). Weather?

Are those things new? IRC has been around 25+ years at least

Might as well ask why would any tech entrepreneur ever have moved to SF?

Therein would lie the answer

Re: Tech workers swore off the Bay Area, now they’re coming back

#108

Post by muzz »

commandlinefan wrote: post #21
ghaff wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a major tech center. Probably easier to get VC money, make serendipitous connections, maybe hire talent. (Though, arguably, the advantages are less than they used to be and the disadvantages greater.) And not weather directly but there are a fair number of tech people who, to the hiring point, have trouble imaging living other places because of some combination of weather and culture (and choice of jobs without…

> maybe hire talent Are most of the bay area developers bay area natives? I was under the impression they were mostly immigrants under H1B contracts that could live anywhere in the US.

Decades of self-sorting have occurred

Re: Tech workers swore off the Bay Area, now they’re coming back

#109

Post by muzz »

nine_zeros wrote: post #26
commandlinefan wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> maybe hire talent Are most of the bay area developers bay area natives? I was under the impression they were mostly immigrants under H1B contracts that could live anywhere in the US.

A non trivial amount of strong immigrant engineers are in SV. Ask me how hard it is to hire hundreds of engineers without faang funding in a tier 2 city.

Strong immigrant engineers that came in the 1990s now have adult children that in the workforce. A personal anecdote, it was indeed a bit surprising to hear my coworker at a startup mention that his mother joined a startup.

Re: Tech workers swore off the Bay Area, now they’re coming back

#110

Post by muzz »

atatatat wrote: post #105
oceanplexian wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was in Miami early this year. Every one of the local coworking spaces were booked full with people working on tech and there were no COVID restrictions. The things I loved about SF seemed to be happening in Miami, lots of diverse cultures, food, bars, and people socializing. I visited SF a few weeks ago and it felt like the energy was gone. The Financial District was dead, as if it was still March 2020.

> The things I loved about SF seemed to be happening in Miami Almost like smart people can smart anywhere there's a beach.

Yet somehow they didn't before a year ago
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