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Tech workers swore off the Bay Area, now they’re coming back

nytimes.com

81–90 of 154 posts

Re: Tech workers swore off the Bay Area, now they’re coming back

#81

I'd love to come back, but the problem isn't with the city, it's the political situation. Who wants to start a company or a business if the local government can arbitrarily shut down your office for several months? Who wants to live in a city that could shut down bars, restaurants, and theaters for a year. I'd rather make my own decisions based on my personal health situation. For several months a vaccinated individu…

So you don't want to do business in CA, NY, Europe, Great Britain, Singapore, China, India, Australia, New Zealand, or Mexico, to name a few?

Basically, you don't want to start a business in any of the world's biggest economies, or in the places with the best tech scenes or financing opportunities?

Activities were shutdown because of a massive global pandemic the likes of which the world hasn't seen for over a century. 4 million people are dead, and counting, and there have been at least 4 surges related to new strains spreading.

And you're leaving/left because you had to wear a face mask?

That is not the hill to die on.

Re: Tech workers swore off the Bay Area, now they’re coming back

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SF isn’t idealistic/fantasy progressivism, it is what it progressivism looks like in practice.

This is obviously farcical because SF does not exist in a vacuum separate from the federal government or the desperately poor conservative areas that siphon tax revenues from the progressive cities. Let alone the fact that SF hyper capitalism is about as far from progressive economic beliefs as possible. But by the same vacuum-logic, Kansas under Brownback is what conservatism looks like in practice: a massive, unmit…

Well said, and great counter-example. People in this thread think "progressive" means "vaguely liberal west coast city," regardless of actual policy, economic systems or the broader context of what's going on in the entire country.

Re: Tech workers swore off the Bay Area, now they’re coming back

#83
post #46

Most of these articles were written from a certain perspective for a certain demographic. I have friends with kids, who are minorities, who have decent/good paying jobs and they never entertained the idea for a second of moving from the Bay Area. We chatted weighing the good and bad of going full remote and moving to a less expensive city. Racism in SF or LA is bad, but it's a known quantity. Being a minority and hav…

What is it suddenly with all this talk about racism ? > Racism in SF or LA is bad... > ...having to deal with racism in Boise, Idaho, for example, was something they didn't feel comfortable with... Who are those racists and in what way do they express their racism? I'm a European who has been on your side of the Atlantic and Pacific quite often for work- and leisure-related purposes over a period of several decades.…

> Either everyone has been blind for decades or the current narrative about racism is a lie meant to achieve some political purpose.

I think it's a bit of both. As the saying goes, "I can tolerate anyone except the outgroup" [1]. Part of that is racism, sure. A lot of it is people being uncomfortable with outsiders in general.

But also the left has found that words like racism, bigotry, xenophobia, etc. are very big sticks, and a big stick is a fun thing to hit your opponents with.

[1] https://www.slatestarcodexabridged.com/I-Can-Tolerate-Anythi...

Re: Tech workers swore off the Bay Area, now they’re coming back

#84
post #55

The bay during the 2010s was a very special time and place. Hard to understand if you weren't there. I've never felt a sense of community and energy and excitement like that anywhere else. Not to mention all the free pizza and beer. If COVID is over and that world comes back, I'd love to return. But right now there doesn't seem to be much point.

Isn't "very special time and place for community, energy and excitement" a function of your age, more than anything else? Everybody experiences their special unique unrepeatable time and place. It doesn't matter which decade they lived, or where. For me, it was the early 90s in post-communist Czechoslovakia. Also, "hard to understand if you weren't there". Free pizza and beer might not hold the same sway they did 10…

[deleted]

Re: Tech workers swore off the Bay Area, now they’re coming back

#85
post #55

The bay during the 2010s was a very special time and place. Hard to understand if you weren't there. I've never felt a sense of community and energy and excitement like that anywhere else. Not to mention all the free pizza and beer. If COVID is over and that world comes back, I'd love to return. But right now there doesn't seem to be much point.

Isn't "very special time and place for community, energy and excitement" a function of your age, more than anything else? Everybody experiences their special unique unrepeatable time and place. It doesn't matter which decade they lived, or where. For me, it was the early 90s in post-communist Czechoslovakia. Also, "hard to understand if you weren't there". Free pizza and beer might not hold the same sway they did 10…

The internet exploded post financial crash.

The iphone invented a whole new platform for ideas.

The economy moved substantially online during this time.

It was a transformative moment in technology being driven out of silicon valley / sf.

Re: Tech workers swore off the Bay Area, now they’re coming back

#86

I live in Austin right now after almost a decade in the Bay. It's nice and I can see why people like it: it's got more of the kind of vibe which lets you raise a family - very suburban, relatively cheap (wrt the Bay Area), people will say hi on the street, stuff like that. San Francisco is a city , though, as small as it is, in a way that Austin isn't, as big as it is. Just like London and New York City are in a diff…

[deleted]

Re: Tech workers swore off the Bay Area, now they’re coming back

#87
post #14

I moved to Austin in November after 10 years in the Bay Area and a lifetime in different parts of California. Not a chance we will move back, certainly not for decades. The most refreshing part of the change is that people are genuinely nicer and more friendly around here than anywhere I lived in California (OC, SD, SF, Berkeley, Stockton for college). I really didn’t expect that, which I think was probably due to cr…

> The weather takes some adjusting, but not more than it took to adjust to the Bay Area fogginess for this SoCal native. Most of the year it’s beautiful out here.

4 months a year above 90F, 7 months above 80F. I'm glad it works for you, but that's some adjusting indeed; people don't set their thermostats to 80F or 90F for a reason, and it's not just cost.

Regarding Bay Area fogginess, did you mean SF / Pacific coast fogginess? Most of the Bay Area seems to be fog-free. I don't remember the last time I saw fog in San Mateo.

Re: Tech workers swore off the Bay Area, now they’re coming back

#88
post #44
post #14

I moved to Austin in November after 10 years in the Bay Area and a lifetime in different parts of California. Not a chance we will move back, certainly not for decades. The most refreshing part of the change is that people are genuinely nicer and more friendly around here than anywhere I lived in California (OC, SD, SF, Berkeley, Stockton for college). I really didn’t expect that, which I think was probably due to cr…

Dont worry, most of California is moving to Texas, so Texas will be just like California in no time, long before "decades", so you will not need to move back California is coming to you

A double-edge sword, right there it is.

Re: Tech workers swore off the Bay Area, now they’re coming back

#89
post #46

Most of these articles were written from a certain perspective for a certain demographic. I have friends with kids, who are minorities, who have decent/good paying jobs and they never entertained the idea for a second of moving from the Bay Area. We chatted weighing the good and bad of going full remote and moving to a less expensive city. Racism in SF or LA is bad, but it's a known quantity. Being a minority and hav…

What is it suddenly with all this talk about racism ? > Racism in SF or LA is bad... > ...having to deal with racism in Boise, Idaho, for example, was something they didn't feel comfortable with... Who are those racists and in what way do they express their racism? I'm a European who has been on your side of the Atlantic and Pacific quite often for work- and leisure-related purposes over a period of several decades.…

I was waiting for one of these responses to arrive. And just like clockwork...

So let's dig in:

> If I can believe the current narrative things have been going from bad to worse to black people walk the streets in fear of their lives from racist cops in the last few years.

In fact, just the opposite. It was worse before, but has slowly gotten better. Black artists have been making songs and paintings about corrupt and racist police not for years but for over a century. Body worn cameras and phone cameras have made the evidence irrefutable, "the police lie." So, now the NWA song, "Fuck the Police", wasn't just a bop but an actual indictment of the LAPD set to a 3/4 beat.

> that same flag is being called a racist symbol by leading politicians

You must be confusing the American flag with some other racist flag. No leading politician has ever referred to the stars and stripes as racist.

> the 4th of July supposedly celebrates independence for only part of the population

Umm yeah, that declaration was for land owning, white men. Native Americans didn't get theirs until 1965. We celebrated it but we knew it wasn't "for us"

> everyone has been blind for decades or the current narrative about racism is a lie meant to achieve some political purpose.

Great big omissions about the history of this country have been uncovered. And instead of believing the citizens have been intentionally blinded you prefer to think it's some conspiracy. Carry on.

> why the parent poster brought up the bad racism in SF and LA and the racism in Boise, Idaho.

Because when deciding where to relocate in the US some of us don't have the privilege of going wherever we want. One of the questions that get asked is "is X minority there? and if not why not?" Sometimes it's as simple as location (ie, HI, AK) and sometimes it's an old racist law like sundown towns. I bring up Boise as a counterexample. We're familiar with LAPD and know what to expect when dealing with them, and Bloomberg era NYPD. When discussion on moving out of California came up it was to other large cities with large minority populations, a place like Boise is an enigma to us. We don't know what's there and that can be dangerous for us.

> Is that the change which made it possible to claim racism is everywhere

So a country that is built on racism, which the US was, it tends to be everywhere, just not in expressed in objective terms and concepts you'd be familiar with. For example, Washington has an unnaturally low Black population. Because black people were literally banned from an entire state.

Btw, I'm sorry for you other people have a different experience from you, and that makes you feel uncomfortable.

Re: Tech workers swore off the Bay Area, now they’re coming back

#90
post #85
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't "very special time and place for community, energy and excitement" a function of your age, more than anything else? Everybody experiences their special unique unrepeatable time and place. It doesn't matter which decade they lived, or where. For me, it was the early 90s in post-communist Czechoslovakia. Also, "hard to understand if you weren't there". Free pizza and beer might not hold the same sway they did 10…

The internet exploded post financial crash. The iphone invented a whole new platform for ideas. The economy moved substantially online during this time. It was a transformative moment in technology being driven out of silicon valley / sf.

I think that's true although I also think that the past decade has been a pretty good time to be in tech broadly. I'm not sure it's really specific to the Bay Area/SF although it may be more obvious there because of how concentrated it is. (And, as you say, an outsized amount of the most visible tech came out of (I'd say) the West Coast.
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