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Tesla’s $16k Quote for a $700 Fix Is Why Right to Repair Matters

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Re: Tesla’s $16k Quote for a $700 Fix Is Why Right to Repair Matters

#551

Post by asdff »

oblio wrote: post #476
asdff wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not all cars are set to depreciate. If you buy something more rare or in demand you will probably see it worth about the same when you sell, sometimes decades down the line. If you bought an aircooled 911 or some old land cruiser today, it would probably be worth even more in 15 years even with your mileage.

This is a very niche case, though, maybe 1% of cars, at best. It doesn't apply to mass market cars.

It sure does apply to mass market cars. A 15 year old Jeep wrangler with a manual transmission will hold its value fine. Most trucks actually hold quite a bit of value, especially with the manual transmission as these are sought after.

Re: Tesla’s $16k Quote for a $700 Fix Is Why Right to Repair Matters

#552

Post by kube-system »

coupdejarnac wrote: post #550
kube-system wrote: post #506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am sure that is the case. I was never suggesting that this part was intentionally chosen to be plastic because nothing else could work. There’s hundreds of materials you can make a fitting out of, and likely dozens of materials would work, with varying pros and cons. I’m saying this is typically a problem that would have a carefully engineered solution.

All this says to me is that you don't have any experience fixing plumbing, HVAC, or anything related. This whole line of reason has been completely ridiculous, and you ought to just stop.

I think you are reading too deeply into my comments, and thinking I am arguing something I am not.

Re: Tesla’s $16k Quote for a $700 Fix Is Why Right to Repair Matters

#553

Post by bonestamp2 »

rtkwe wrote: post #508
bonestamp2 wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is a design flaw. How do you know? I mean, maybe they very intentionally designed that part out of plastic so that it would break away from the battery in a case like this (instead of not breaking away and creating a higher risk of damaging the battery).

If it's intentionally designed to break away to protect something else they would/should have the ability to replace it instead of wanting 16k to replace the whole battery. If they did design it to break away AND don't make it reasonably replaceable it starts to look positively sinister....

I generally agree, although it seems like Tesla service might be the problem, not the design. The article states that the depot the car was sent to only had the option to replace the battery. In other words, they don't have the tools and/or parts to remove the broken part and replace it. The repair could be done by Tesla if they wanted to, which means it's not necessarily bad design, but certainly bad service at a minimum.

Re: Tesla’s $16k Quote for a $700 Fix Is Why Right to Repair Matters

#554

Post by whoknowswhat11 »

dragonwriter wrote: post #428
whoknowswhat11 wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perfect - the best defense BY FAR is to have less / little / no $$. This is unique in CA - other party can be 90% at fault - so you’d think they’d have to pay (some states do whoever is 51%+ pays). But you can actually be the one paying rather than getting paid even if they hit you.

> This is unique in CA No its not, its the pure comparative fault rule followed by 13 states. > - other party can be 90% at fault - so you’d think they’d have to pay And you’d be right, if you suffered damages. If they were 90% responsible and you were 10% responsible, they’d have to suffer 9× the compensible injury that you did to net anything, because California is a pure comparative fault state. > (some states do…

Let me give you an example - see if you can figure out who will pay and how much. The answer may surprise you.

Husband / driver falls asleep at the wheel while trying to speed home (going 70-80MPH). Weaves and then veers sharply off the freeway, hitting a parked vehicle parked well clear of the roadway and killing themselves, damaging the parked vehicle and causing pain and suffering to driver of parked vehicle.

Wife and family brings suit against driver and company owning parked vehicle for damages including funeral and burial costs, unreimbursed medical expenses, other out-of-pocket expenses, loss of income and financial support, loss of insurance coverage, loss of love, companionship, comfort, care, assistance, protection, affection, society, and moral support.

Questions you may wish to consider.

Family bringing case has no money - there is no chance of collection. Guy falling asleep and running off the road was only source of income.

Company owning parked vehicle has money - there is a high chance of collection on any judgement.

Who will pay out in CA. The guy causing the situation by running off the road and smashing into a parked vehicle at 80 MPH? Or the company owning the vehicle he smashed into.

In CA - the answer may surprise you. And the size of awards may surprise you.

Re: Tesla’s $16k Quote for a $700 Fix Is Why Right to Repair Matters

#555

Post by webinvest »

webinvest wrote: post #107
smnrchrds wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my view, the real reason is that many HNers work for Apple, but not that many HNers work for Tesla.

In TFA, the Tesla is rendered inoperable. An IOS AltStore doesn’t contain much other than ROMs. Even if it contains more, no one apparently can browse the altstore app lists until they go through the effort of installing it —- so no one cares. Also HN has tons of Tesla fanboys.

So I was downvoted but no one has still provided any lists of apps or tweaks worth side-loading onto a iPhone in 2021. This isn’t 2012 when the only way to listen to Pandora or another music app while having another app open on IOS 6 is to jailbreak your phone and use Cydia to install backgrounder.

Re: Tesla’s $16k Quote for a $700 Fix Is Why Right to Repair Matters

#556

Post by rasz »

mulmen wrote: post #528
smileysteve wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotal. But I haven't spent $5k in repairs to my 17 year old bmw in the 10 years I've owned it. I do budget for $1k a year though.

My 2010 BMW had $5,000.00 in repairs in the first year after the warranty expired. That doesn’t include the $15,000.00 in unnecessary repairs the dealership quoted me. In the four years since then repairs have been closer to $2,000.00 a year. The electric water water pump alone was $2,000.00. $1,200.00 in parts and $800.00 in labor. This is basically a “maintenance” item. The car has less than 100k miles and is on th…

you got scammed, VDO 11519455978 is $330

Re: Tesla’s $16k Quote for a $700 Fix Is Why Right to Repair Matters

#557

Post by cartoonworld »

DannyBee wrote: post #292
cartoonworld wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The right move is to route the coolant lines away from harmful road debris or add a shield or deflector. If the coolant line is the protection for the case, that sounds like a big mistake. The owner is indeed lucky that the bunge snapped off rather than crack the case, spilling gallons of toxic coolant all over the place and resting his un-burnt flesh in the failsafes of this battery monitoring system. It really smac…

Look. I will never own or consider a Tesla given what i've seen, and will happily take them to task. But i think this is a bit far. It's pretty common in ICE vehicles for the oil pan to be easily damaged by road debris, and the oil it spills is more toxic than coolant. In particular, the Tesla's use glycol for cooling, which is not that bad to spill (certainly better than most oils). So while certainly not better tha…

I just took a close look at a new model 3. I identified how the damage occurred in about 5 seconds.

The coolant line runs right next to the rear sway bar and is visible from outside the vehicle. There is a basic plastic gaurd plate along the entire rear undercarriage. This 2020 model 3 has missing plastic body clip rivets in the area that is supposed to protect the cooling lines.

I was able to easy move the panel exposing the entire line on both sides.

A stick could easily get bound up in the wheel and whip right under it.

Re: Tesla’s $16k Quote for a $700 Fix Is Why Right to Repair Matters

#558

Post by revnode »

elisharobinson wrote: post #540
revnode wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That rate likely includes transportation to the facility to do the repair. I would happily pay that over paying $16k and so did the customer. That's a fantastic argument for RTR.

from Teslas perspective this makes sense. the available options are as follows. 1. invest money in a supply chain to have parts in stock for the battery assembly(take many months). 2. do a repair in Tesla warranty and pick up the Tab again if it breaks or worse the battery is damaged. 3. force a repair on the owner/lessee to pay for a new battery assembly which is less likely to have issues/safer

> 1. invest money in a supply chain to have parts in stock for the battery assembly(take many months).

They already have this for other parts, it's trivial to extend the model to the battery. The problem is that the battery was not designed to be serviced without specialized tooling and expertise.

It doesn't have to be that way. It was their choice. They made that choice because it costs them less money to service the batteries in bulk at a specialized facility, at the expense of the customer. It's not like the customer has a choice. They already bought the car. What are they going to do?

Here is another option:

4. Design your vehicles in a way where a $1 part can be easily detached and replaced by anyone with basic tooling, instead of charging the customer $18k for a new battery.

This isn't just an issue with Tesla. This is an issue with almost all manufacturers today. They make more money when they replace the entire assembly.

Apple operates in the same way. If one of the keys breaks on your laptop, Apple will replace half the laptop. That's the only option. You can't replace the key. It was designed this way.

Re: Tesla’s $16k Quote for a $700 Fix Is Why Right to Repair Matters

#559

Post by vehiclesuggest »

Tesla mostly trains workers for replacing assemblies and not individual parts. This reduces the probability that a worker will be able to sort out small issues within assemblies. That is why, Tesla quotes higher repair costs, as they have to end up replacing entire assemblies.

Re: Tesla’s $16k Quote for a $700 Fix Is Why Right to Repair Matters

#560

Post by CRConrad »

Sebb767 wrote: post #220
Arch-TK wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why the assumption that the independant tesla repair people don't know this? It might be unknown to you but I assume that people who work with metals and liquids all day long (including coolant) would have some idea of their interaction.

The point is not to call them incompetent - there absolutely are rigorous and good third party repair shops out there. Unfortunately, there are just as much of them just trying to get your money and then fixing it the simplest and cheapest way possible, without the consideration for long term safety and secondary effects that Tesla has probably put in. As an outsider, it's hard to tell the difference, but I agree wit…

> As an outsider, it's hard to tell the difference, but I agree with the grandparent that an order of magnitude cheaper does look too good to be true at first.

Whereas, looking at it the other way around, an order of magnitude more expensive on the part of the manufacturer unfortunately doesn't look too bad to be true at all.

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