Sega sued for ‘rigged’ arcade machine • Hacker News Board

Re: Sega sued for ‘rigged’ arcade machine

#71

Post by sircastor » Thu, Jul 15, 2021, 1:42 AM UTC

Something1234 wrote: post #3

State gaming boards really need to investigate arcades in general. They are much worse than the casino with the same kinds of games, but a much worse payout. I once calculated it out when I was on a bus trip I would get back 70% of what I put in (n=$100). At the arcade you're lucky to get 5 cents back, and most of the time the games are not even fun. We need to put together a team of experts to audit all of these mac…

I remember hearing a story about Pinball being proven as a game of skill, rather than a game of chance, over-turning decades of a ban.

[1] https://gizmodo.com/how-one-perfect-shot-saved-pinball-from-...

Re: Sega sued for ‘rigged’ arcade machine

#72

Post by abaracadab » Thu, Jul 15, 2021, 1:42 AM UTC

rubyn00bie wrote: post #63

Oh, I thought this was known. I'm not even joking... A few years ago, I was at a local comic shop, and I watched someone (a kid) play the machine and appear to get a "perfect" shot, key went exactly into the fucking hole... but then it just pulled back. No prize! I was stunned when the kid asked an employee essentially "WTF?" and the employee replied "there's a chance the key may not turn even though it's lined up."…

So it sounds like skill + luck: key in the hole gives random chance of winning.

Honestly, these kind of lawsuits are ridiculous. People need to sue General Mills for false advertising instead because sugary cereals causing diabetes; or any other big-food company brainwashing children on YouTube kids.

Re: Sega sued for ‘rigged’ arcade machine

#73

Post by jetrink » Thu, Jul 15, 2021, 1:50 AM UTC

rubyn00bie wrote: post #63

Oh, I thought this was known. I'm not even joking... A few years ago, I was at a local comic shop, and I watched someone (a kid) play the machine and appear to get a "perfect" shot, key went exactly into the fucking hole... but then it just pulled back. No prize! I was stunned when the kid asked an employee essentially "WTF?" and the employee replied "there's a chance the key may not turn even though it's lined up."…

Yeah, I googled 'sega keymaster' to see what the game looked like and the first result was a 2014 video in which the person demonstrating the game described it as "pretty much luck" and "not due to pay out no matter how accurate you are."

1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iczyli1Uo1w

Re: Sega sued for ‘rigged’ arcade machine

#74

Post by brightball » Thu, Jul 15, 2021, 1:51 AM UTC

rubyn00bie wrote: post #63

Oh, I thought this was known. I'm not even joking... A few years ago, I was at a local comic shop, and I watched someone (a kid) play the machine and appear to get a "perfect" shot, key went exactly into the fucking hole... but then it just pulled back. No prize! I was stunned when the kid asked an employee essentially "WTF?" and the employee replied "there's a chance the key may not turn even though it's lined up."…

Mark Roper actually did a video on this and found the exact frequency at which people are allowed to win.

Re: Sega sued for ‘rigged’ arcade machine

#75

Post by pfundstein » Thu, Jul 15, 2021, 1:53 AM UTC

rubyn00bie wrote: post #63

Oh, I thought this was known. I'm not even joking... A few years ago, I was at a local comic shop, and I watched someone (a kid) play the machine and appear to get a "perfect" shot, key went exactly into the fucking hole... but then it just pulled back. No prize! I was stunned when the kid asked an employee essentially "WTF?" and the employee replied "there's a chance the key may not turn even though it's lined up."…

It is simply gambling for kids. These 'games' are much more profitable than traditional arcade games (street fighter/mario kart/pacman/etc/etc), and when you boil them down it's because they're essentially slot machines.

Re: Sega sued for ‘rigged’ arcade machine

#76

Post by BrissyCoder » Thu, Jul 15, 2021, 2:09 AM UTC

Aeolun wrote: post #59

BrissyCoder wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had pretty much the exact same experience recently. What also annoyed me when our child was much younger was how many of the toys people bought him were cheap plastic with flashing lights and sounds and how much these reminded me of slot machines.

> cheap plastic with flashing lights and sounds To be fair, kids don’t care about cheap plastic, and they love flashing lights and sounds. Expensive plastic toys have the same flashing lights and sounds. Though I’ll admit that even more expensive wooden toys don’t, they generally still try to incorporate play with light and sound into the toy somehow.

> To be fair, kids don’t care about cheap plastic, and they love flashing lights and sounds.

People love all kinds shit that is objectively bad for them... sugar, heroin, gambling, cryptocurrency.

> Expensive plastic toys have the same flashing lights and sounds.

The cheap adjective was unnecessary.

Re: Sega sued for ‘rigged’ arcade machine

#77

Post by IncRnd » Thu, Jul 15, 2021, 2:10 AM UTC

Normally, you need three items for the device to be a gambling device, chance, consideration, and reward. There must be payment for consideration to win, and you need a chance to win.

Since the device has controls for the rention percentage, that leans towards these are not gambling devices, since jurisdictions can differ. However, it is not exactly a skill device, either. There is an option to convert it to skill based, but I doubt an operator anywhere used that option. That is also why the manufacturer put the effort for that on the operator to install, so that it likely wouldn't get installed.

Re: Sega sued for ‘rigged’ arcade machine

#78

Post by GuB-42 » Thu, Jul 15, 2021, 2:14 AM UTC

Something1234 wrote: post #3

State gaming boards really need to investigate arcades in general. They are much worse than the casino with the same kinds of games, but a much worse payout. I once calculated it out when I was on a bus trip I would get back 70% of what I put in (n=$100). At the arcade you're lucky to get 5 cents back, and most of the time the games are not even fun. We need to put together a team of experts to audit all of these mac…

In the arcade, you get exactly 0% of your money back. You may get a prize though.

It is the thing that makes it not gambling. In a casino, there is the risk of spending more than your disposable income, hoping to get your money back. In an arcade, you know that once the money is in the machine, it is gone, less chance to overspend. The main point of anti-gambling laws is to prevent addicts from ruining themselves, not to prevent you from spending some money to have fun at the casino, and not to save your disposable income.

The line is blurred when the prize has resale value, and in fact, a common way to disguise gambling is for the machine to give out prizes that the shop next door conveniently buys for a good price.

Re: Sega sued for ‘rigged’ arcade machine

#79

Post by nkrisc » Thu, Jul 15, 2021, 2:23 AM UTC

abaracadab wrote: post #72

rubyn00bie wrote: post #63

Oh, I thought this was known. I'm not even joking... A few years ago, I was at a local comic shop, and I watched someone (a kid) play the machine and appear to get a "perfect" shot, key went exactly into the fucking hole... but then it just pulled back. No prize! I was stunned when the kid asked an employee essentially "WTF?" and the employee replied "there's a chance the key may not turn even though it's lined up."…

So it sounds like skill + luck: key in the hole gives random chance of winning. Honestly, these kind of lawsuits are ridiculous. People need to sue General Mills for false advertising instead because sugary cereals causing diabetes; or any other big-food company brainwashing children on YouTube kids.

That’s just luck.

Re: Sega sued for ‘rigged’ arcade machine

#80

Post by cortesoft » Thu, Jul 15, 2021, 2:27 AM UTC

nkrisc wrote: post #79

abaracadab wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So it sounds like skill + luck: key in the hole gives random chance of winning. Honestly, these kind of lawsuits are ridiculous. People need to sue General Mills for false advertising instead because sugary cereals causing diabetes; or any other big-food company brainwashing children on YouTube kids.

That’s just luck.

No, because if you really suck, you can’t win at all.

It is like poker, which is a combination of skill and luck.