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Young, Dumb, and Broke: Why Outdoorsy Types Suck at Money

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111–120 of 138 posts

Re: Young, Dumb, and Broke: Why Outdoorsy Types Suck at Money

#111

After years of living for the moment and YOLOing, author felt bad because she was in her 30s and didnt have wealth, then her parents gave her a large lump sum of money and she was able to apply things she learned from financial management books. The end.

The older the company I mix with, the more I realize how common it is for parents to give their kids a huge leg up financially. I am one of the only people in my friend group to not have been given the equivalent of a large home down payment by the time they were thirty.

Huh you have nice friends. My parents a rich and the only thing they gave me directly was a rent payment on a flat I was leaving when I moved abroad . They paid the $1000 rent for 6 months in case it didnt pan out and needee to crash back.

That was amazingly nice but a house downpayment, I d feel like cheating at life.

Re: Young, Dumb, and Broke: Why Outdoorsy Types Suck at Money

#112

I am bad with money. I’m also not abnormal. A 2017 survey by CareerBuilder found that 78 percent of Americans live paycheck to paycheck, while a 2019 survey by Bankrate found that 60 percent of us couldn’t cover a $1,000 emergency. For most in this predicament, it has nothing to do with being bad with money. It has everything to do with their income being 80% of their essential bills.

> I am bad with money. I’m also not abnormal. Reading stuff like this makes me feel old. The - new generation? - who seem to always publicly remind themselves that they're good enough after all and just like everyone else and normal and it's hard for us ... and now don't get me wrong: these things can be true. But I grew up not standing on a soapbox and exclaiming these things, and not thinking or writing in that way…

Not sure I really agree, to me it just seemed as if she's speaking to a wider trend of people mismanaging their finances and speaks to the reasons (culture, literacy, short-term bias etc). It's quite common for journalists to try to touch on societal trends, whilst doing it through the lens of a personal story, it makes the writing relatable to the reader and thereby potentially useful.

But even if she wasn't doing that and was indeed looking to normalize financial illiteracy by saying it's common and she's not the only one, I think that's a pretty healthy perspective. Yes she fucked up, which she acknowledges. But it can be healthy to not seek fault in you as a person or your character, but rather to seek fault in your behaviour, your lack of education on a topic, your views which may have been too biased for the short-term. After all, those things can be changed, it gives the individual agency and a feeling of control. I think the entire article acknowledged that the solution lied with her changing her views, her habits, her financial literacy, her financial management. I found it to the contrary of removal of the subject.

> I fucked up.

Was she not saying exactly those things? For example she says "I saw my folly" or "How was I ever going to afford a kid’s college fund? It wasn’t just that I’d only ever lived for my youth; maybe I’d only ever lived for myself. No wonder I was alone." It's quite clear she felt she fucked up and saw the issue with herself.

> I used to be bad with money. Now I do this: __ __ __.

Again, I felt she touched on this throughout the article, e.g. by saying things like "I’d started reading personal-finance books, analyzing my spending, and making budgets. I also started wearing sunscreen."

Re: Young, Dumb, and Broke: Why Outdoorsy Types Suck at Money

#113
post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that that's a major point. Still, I'm consistently utterly surprised by friends/family/colleagues with similar income but a very different predicament. I was raised on welfare myself and started out my early twenties with minimum wage jobs including factory work. Yet I always had savings, the idea that I couldn't cover a $1000 emergency would be insane to me, especially structurally. Did that mean I had to li…

Living with your parents longer than expected sounds like your parents didn't also need you to be helping support them while you were getting these savings

> sounds like

How so? I don't see the link between not moving out as soon as expected, meaning my parents must've not been financially dependent on me in any way.

Would you for example suppose that parents who're in need of financial support would have their kids move out earlier than expected? I don't really follow your point.

Re: Young, Dumb, and Broke: Why Outdoorsy Types Suck at Money

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am bad with money. I’m also not abnormal. Reading stuff like this makes me feel old. The - new generation? - who seem to always publicly remind themselves that they're good enough after all and just like everyone else and normal and it's hard for us ... and now don't get me wrong: these things can be true. But I grew up not standing on a soapbox and exclaiming these things, and not thinking or writing in that way…

Evoking the sense that there are systematic forces at play is intentional! Who cares if _you're_ bad with money? It could be an edge case that doesn't matter. But if it's normal to be bad with money (i.e. there are a lot of people who are bad with money), that's a little more interesting -- something to pay attention to. Also, as someone on the younger side, this mentality is comforting. It's the comfort of existing…

As someone also on the younger side, I want to echo what you've said: I've also felt feelings of not belonging, things are hard, but you'll probably be fine.

More like the GP, however, I've gotten there not through identification with others but instead through the cultivation of a spiritual life philosophy.

Like GP, I also grow tired of hearing these voices too often. I have a little sister, who is 13 now, and she feels submitted to her fate. More often than not she feels like a candle in the wind (queue Elton John) instead of a captain at the helm.

But you're right, it is something to pay attention to. These little instances all add up to be statistically relevant and a source of knowledge for collective social truth-finding.

One thing I must insist on, philosophically, however, is that we are not often served by identifying with sub-par things. Personal identification is very useful for aspiring and evolving, but personal identification with the present or the past can unnecessarily keep you anchored to bad habits.

Re: Young, Dumb, and Broke: Why Outdoorsy Types Suck at Money

#115
post #11

>I have no idea where all my money went. I can so relate to that. Fortunately my natural instincts appear to leave me with cash at end of month which I move to savings...but that is about the extent of my control over things.

You have bank account and credit card statements right? Maybe take a look and see where the money is going?

Re: Young, Dumb, and Broke: Why Outdoorsy Types Suck at Money

#116

After years of living for the moment and YOLOing, author felt bad because she was in her 30s and didnt have wealth, then her parents gave her a large lump sum of money and she was able to apply things she learned from financial management books. The end.

Yeah I was waiting for the point in this article where it became about "outdoorsy types" and not the author but it never happened. I'd be embarrassed too, mismanaging money and relying on my parents support at 34 years old. I guess the author was just so embarrassed that she published this article about it. Great job with the antagonizing, clickbait title though. I'm guessing "My Tone-deaf Autobiography about How Irr…

Yeah, half my coworkers have been super outdoorsy types, all of them are doing fine financially. I don't think there's any statistical evidence that outdoorsy types are less financially responsible.

In fact it may be the opposite correlation, as those that can partake in outdoorsy activities frequently are probably better off than average.

Re: Young, Dumb, and Broke: Why Outdoorsy Types Suck at Money

#117
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The older the company I mix with, the more I realize how common it is for parents to give their kids a huge leg up financially. I am one of the only people in my friend group to not have been given the equivalent of a large home down payment by the time they were thirty.

Huh you have nice friends. My parents a rich and the only thing they gave me directly was a rent payment on a flat I was leaving when I moved abroad . They paid the $1000 rent for 6 months in case it didnt pan out and needee to crash back. That was amazingly nice but a house downpayment, I d feel like cheating at life.

My understanding is that it's pretty common on the US coasts (i.e. the major metros where housing is super unaffordable).

I imagine it's a self feeding cycle. Young adults can't purchase homes, so their parents cosign and give a big down payment. Then sellers are able to ask more because wealthy parents are backing the sale, which just makes housing even more unaffordable.

Re: Young, Dumb, and Broke: Why Outdoorsy Types Suck at Money

#118
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The older the company I mix with, the more I realize how common it is for parents to give their kids a huge leg up financially. I am one of the only people in my friend group to not have been given the equivalent of a large home down payment by the time they were thirty.

Huh you have nice friends. My parents a rich and the only thing they gave me directly was a rent payment on a flat I was leaving when I moved abroad . They paid the $1000 rent for 6 months in case it didnt pan out and needee to crash back. That was amazingly nice but a house downpayment, I d feel like cheating at life.

Even so, the safety net can be useful. I have a friend who knows his parents have >1m available, and he knows that given their spending patterns, the returns on investments and actuarial tables, it's likely a $2m windfall will come his way within the next 20 years.

That allows a wildly different lifestyle. He can spend 100% of what he earns, and still

- retire early - buy a large home - send his kids to uni - enjoy quality of life of the top 15%

Not having to buy a home, invest in stocks, reserve money for retirement, savings etc, is a big deal. Meanwhile other friends who have no such parents are more stuck in the rat race and will likely work till an old age retirement, not have a big home, will struggle with kids' education blablabla.

The other thing is that if he fucks up, his parents will help him out. This is one of the reasons I think that he started his own business and continued through years of no-income, whereas others had no such luxury to fail for a few years. e.g. there's plenty of people who, if they had not climbed the corporate ladder the past few years, would permanently be locked out of the housing market. He has no such problem, as if shit really hits the fan there's always a safety net. Your parents might be reserved, but unless they're quite unique, they'll definitely step in if you really fall.

Lastly, don't think it applies to you but I find as kids get older and the 'house' discussion comes up, suddenly rich parents step-in in ways they wouldn't have before (e.g. to fund a fun lifestyle). I've seen this housing-purchase support so often and it can't be overstated how much of a leg up this can be. And even if no support is given, inheritance of rich parents typically covers the mortgage and then some mid-life.

Don't mean to make it too personal and dump a lot of 'you're actually privileged' on you, I don't know you so I really can't say, every family is different. But on a more general note, having rich parents is definitely useful even if there's not been much financial help so far.

Re: Young, Dumb, and Broke: Why Outdoorsy Types Suck at Money

#119
post #28
post #9

I'm not a particularly outdoorsy person, but being a frugal person, I have noticed that a lot of outdoors activities really do "require" an investment. Equipment can be expensive, as can ski passes or trips. Once you hang out in those circles (as the article states), you don't want to have cheap gear. It's as with anything, I suppose, but with gear, there's always more and better things, which never interested me. I…

Yes, I'm a Mountain Biker and have been for quite sometime now. I've had people ask me about getting into Mountain Biking on the cheap, say sub $500. I've told them to try hiking, it's far cheaper.

You can get a suitable hardtail for less than $500 on Craigslist pretty easy. I have been riding a bike I got for $100 for over 5 years. I dropped another $100 on a new set of brakes just to be safe. And most beginners would probably be better off starting on a cheap hardtail anyways. They should be starting off on easier trials where expensive gear is overkill, and hardtails are much less maintenance which means they will spend less time wrenching and more time riding.

Re: Young, Dumb, and Broke: Why Outdoorsy Types Suck at Money

#120
post #109
post #9

I'm not a particularly outdoorsy person, but being a frugal person, I have noticed that a lot of outdoors activities really do "require" an investment. Equipment can be expensive, as can ski passes or trips. Once you hang out in those circles (as the article states), you don't want to have cheap gear. It's as with anything, I suppose, but with gear, there's always more and better things, which never interested me. I…

> Cycling shouldn't be about the gear itself. It should be about, well, getting out there and cycling. But for some people, half the fun is spending money on the toys. I love getting out there and cycling (just got back from a ride in fact). I also love geeking out about bikes and bike gear, and I’m not sure why you say it “shouldn’t” be half about that. Why shouldn’t it? I appreciate the engineering that goes into t…

For some folks part of the motivation for getting outdoors is to escape the ills of modern life, and one of those ills is consumerism. As outdoor sports/recreation has turned into a fairly large and profitable industry, for those of us who are not a fan of the commercialization side of things, it has become increasingly difficult to ignore/escape. Trails are packed with folks in shiny new gear, outdoor media is filled with ads, etc...

I by no means begrudge someone who enjoys geeking out about gear. I occasionally indulge. But for the most part I like to get my equipment as hand me downs or on craigslist. And I try to keep that equipment running as long as possible. I find that repairing stuff scratches my engineering itch and that going minimalist with gear helps me focus on the experience more.

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