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Young, Dumb, and Broke: Why Outdoorsy Types Suck at Money

outsideonline.com

21–30 of 138 posts

Re: Young, Dumb, and Broke: Why Outdoorsy Types Suck at Money

#21

The answer to the headline is, of course, because almost everyone sucks at money.

But here's the thing. I have $80 and need to pay $100 in bills. There aren't any money skills that can overpower math.

I don’t think that’s the right way to think about it.

You usually aren’t born needing to pay $100, and having $80, there are probably decisions you make that put you more or less likely to be in that situation, some obvious, some not.

Sometimes you do get shit luck, but I think there are always ways to mitigate the negative consequences of bad luck, and maximize the consequences of good luck.

We have a lot of control over how our lives turn out here in the US, though not complete control, and it’s worth remembering that.

Re: Young, Dumb, and Broke: Why Outdoorsy Types Suck at Money

#22
post #11

>I have no idea where all my money went. I can so relate to that. Fortunately my natural instincts appear to leave me with cash at end of month which I move to savings...but that is about the extent of my control over things.

Everything changed for me when I moved money to savings automatically on every paycheck. You kinda just figure out how to fit your life into what’s left.

Re: Young, Dumb, and Broke: Why Outdoorsy Types Suck at Money

#23

I am bad with money. I’m also not abnormal. A 2017 survey by CareerBuilder found that 78 percent of Americans live paycheck to paycheck, while a 2019 survey by Bankrate found that 60 percent of us couldn’t cover a $1,000 emergency. For most in this predicament, it has nothing to do with being bad with money. It has everything to do with their income being 80% of their essential bills.

I agree that that's a major point. Still, I'm consistently utterly surprised by friends/family/colleagues with similar income but a very different predicament.

I was raised on welfare myself and started out my early twenties with minimum wage jobs including factory work. Yet I always had savings, the idea that I couldn't cover a $1000 emergency would be insane to me, especially structurally.

Did that mean I had to live with my parents longer than I'd have liked to? Yes. I also didn't have a car and took the bus. I had a cheap Android phone. Wore secondhand clothes. I rarely ate out, and in my first 25 years of my life I never, ever, just went somewhere to get a coffee.

But I did have a home, transport, clothes, a smartphone, food and coffee, and also savings.

I don't want to victim-blame, there's certainly many who're trapped in a predicament. And it certainly helped being young, healthy, flexible, without kids, there's an immeasurable privilege to that situation versus the contrary (old, sick, with dependents). But I also saw plenty who weren't trapped and spent a ton on a way too expensive lease car they didn't need. Or who always had the latest iphone, and also had a minimum wage job. Or who rented a place downtown, instead of 20 minutes commute for a 30% discount. Those are lifestyle choices, which is completely fine to make, but not unconditionally. Once you have an emergency fund and you prioritize the short term over the long-term, it's simple a personal preference. But if you have no emergency fund, or if you have long-term goals you want to meet, you need to manage it. I have lots of friends who don't even spend the 1 hour a week to make and monitor a very basic budget for example.

I mean let's be frank, median household income is $64k in the US. It's about the richest in the world, especially if you exclude the tiny rich states that have a few million people like Luxembourg there's nothing to really rival it. The idea that <1 week of median household income is an emergency for 4 out of 5 households is statistically not in line with 'for most it's just their predicament, not related to lifestyle or financial planning or management'.

Re: Young, Dumb, and Broke: Why Outdoorsy Types Suck at Money

#24
post #9

I'm not a particularly outdoorsy person, but being a frugal person, I have noticed that a lot of outdoors activities really do "require" an investment. Equipment can be expensive, as can ski passes or trips. Once you hang out in those circles (as the article states), you don't want to have cheap gear. It's as with anything, I suppose, but with gear, there's always more and better things, which never interested me. I…

For seven thousand dollars you can get a computer that will make a saint weep (you can get something about 99% as good for like two grand if you build it yourself or four if you bought it prebuilt). Computers are insanely cheap joy boxes when compared to nearly every other form of entertainment - for that cost you're getting a piece of hardware that will be nearly top-of-the-line for three years or so now-a-days, and probably passably performant for a decade. So I entirely agree that, working in a field where video games are seen as a reasonable and normal past-time, the cost of renting skies for a weekend can seem outrageous.

Money is freaking weird - food and essentials are also a complicating factor here though. I like to eat well so my food budget is about 150$/week which is about three times as high (for two of us) as my parents paid for three of us.

Re: Young, Dumb, and Broke: Why Outdoorsy Types Suck at Money

#25
post #6

In a 2014 study, he found that 58 percent of affluent people are first-generation wealth, not trust-fund babies. I've heard that idea before, that the notion of inherited unearned wealth as explaining the bulk of the wealthy population is actually misleading. Same thing was said in that old book The Millionaire Mind I think.

I think people is the wrong metric for this statistic. A large number of just-barely-affluent nouveau riche could drown out a handful of old money robber barons that own the world. The much more interesting statistic would slice it by dollar: What percentage of dollars are owned by first-generation wealthy versus old money?

Really depends on what you’re trying to use the number for. If you’re trying to study wealthy people, it makes sense to use stats that are counting people filtered by wealth. If you are trying to study wealth itself, it makes sense to use stats that are weighted by dollar.

Re: Young, Dumb, and Broke: Why Outdoorsy Types Suck at Money

#26
post #6

In a 2014 study, he found that 58 percent of affluent people are first-generation wealth, not trust-fund babies. I've heard that idea before, that the notion of inherited unearned wealth as explaining the bulk of the wealthy population is actually misleading. Same thing was said in that old book The Millionaire Mind I think.

Note that (and I don't have a proper comp for this, but would be interested in one) 58% of wealthy people being first-generation wealth does not mean (or, with the way wealth tends to follow a power-law distribution, even necessarily imply) that 58% of the wealth held by affluent people is held by first-generation wealthy.

Re: Young, Dumb, and Broke: Why Outdoorsy Types Suck at Money

#28
post #9

I'm not a particularly outdoorsy person, but being a frugal person, I have noticed that a lot of outdoors activities really do "require" an investment. Equipment can be expensive, as can ski passes or trips. Once you hang out in those circles (as the article states), you don't want to have cheap gear. It's as with anything, I suppose, but with gear, there's always more and better things, which never interested me. I…

Yes, I'm a Mountain Biker and have been for quite sometime now. I've had people ask me about getting into Mountain Biking on the cheap, say sub $500. I've told them to try hiking, it's far cheaper.

Re: Young, Dumb, and Broke: Why Outdoorsy Types Suck at Money

#29

I am bad with money. I’m also not abnormal. A 2017 survey by CareerBuilder found that 78 percent of Americans live paycheck to paycheck, while a 2019 survey by Bankrate found that 60 percent of us couldn’t cover a $1,000 emergency. For most in this predicament, it has nothing to do with being bad with money. It has everything to do with their income being 80% of their essential bills.

Do people who consider themselves “outdoorsy” tend to pursue employment opportunities that pay less than their potential earnings, had they pursued employment that maximized the value of their skills?

It’s like a “pursue your passion” dilemma. If your passion is whitewater rafting, employment in that field will pay differently than, say, many kinds of employment facilitated by a computer science degree.

Same dilemma goes for clergy, who often have marketable and lucrative skills they leave behind to pursue their calling.

Re: Young, Dumb, and Broke: Why Outdoorsy Types Suck at Money

#30

> How was I ever going to afford a kid’s college fund? How was I ever going to afford a kid’s college fund? Uh, lady, you’re 37 years old. If you seriously want a kid, you need to approach finding a spouse with the same seriousness and intention you (admirably) now approach finances. Otherwise, it ain’t gonna happen. But I guess that’s another article.

Plenty of people adopt
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