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A shift in American family values is fueling estrangement

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Re: A shift in American family values is fueling estrangement

#511
post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lot of "Fox News robbed me of my parents" stories out there. https://www.salon.com/2014/02/27/i_lost_my_dad_to_fox_news_h... (2014, situation has generally got worse!) https://captainawkward.com/2020/12/09/1304-fox-news-stole-my...

Is it really that hard to just ignore these things when your parents say them? I have Republican parents and I just smile and nod whenever they say something crazy. It's extremely easy.

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Re: A shift in American family values is fueling estrangement

#512

When I was around twenty my Mom used to call me every other day or so just to have a chat. One day, after she asked me how my day was, I shot back something along the lines of: "I don't have anything to tell you, really. You're calling so often that nothing new manages to happen in between the calls." So, she stopped calling. I would go home every other week as usual and everything seemed fine. It was only much later…

> So, I felt [...] grateful to my parents for being there in the first place I'm going to say something controversial. Not everyone is grateful for their life. I've talked to multiple people who preferred to never be born. And event the best parents I know couldn't offer much more honest reason for having children than "we wanted to" which is basically ultimate selfishness. > [...] and being decent at being parents a…

> > So, I felt [...] grateful to my parents for being there in the first place

> I'm going to say something controversial. Not everyone is grateful for their life. I've talked to multiple people who preferred to never be born. And event the best parents I know couldn't offer much more honest reason for having children than "we wanted to" which is basically ultimate selfishness.

> > [...] and being decent at being parents as well.

> That's way more universally good reason for treating your parents well.

I can verify this. I very much wish I wasn't tasked with being alive. Depending on your metaphysical beliefs, I feel like I'm wasting another soul's place in the world. I don't want to be here, maybe if another soul was in this body then it would put it to better use and be happy and fulfilled and desire this life. I have people who want me to be here and for their sake I continue onwards, always wondering why, and always wishing I didn't have to. I used to make the mistake of thinking I could confide in them these feelings I have, but eventually I realized that I cannot. Rather, I should not. My parents wanted to be parents, and they began preparing for me as soon as they found out I was on my way. They kept me from falling off of tall things or licking wall sockets or drinking cleaning fluid as a baby. No matter how you word it, there's no way to explain that you don't want to exist that doesn't tell a parent "everything you defined yourself by for the last few decades is a farce, the thing that you made doesn't want to exist." I am not grateful my parents made me, but I don't hate them so much as to want to hurt them by telling them that.

Re: A shift in American family values is fueling estrangement

#513

I think if anything, the "shift" is more like an unveiling. There are and have always been extremely problematic issues in many families, it's just that in the past you would be denigrated for severing ties with your family for those reasons due to a sense of duty. So we now finally see the elephant in the room. We cannot go back to unseeing it, but we have to deal with it gracefully. To me this is just the continuin…

I came here to say this. My step-sister's family sticks to the concept of family despite all the women being raped and beaten by their father. They will not address the problem, their mother will not address the problem, and the only way to live in reality is to leave them. They violently attacked her for trying to discuss it on multiple occasions. Their mother continues this even after the death of their father. The…

This is a great comment. My story isn't nearly as bad as this. I just happened to be born the son of an asshole. I really don't take responsibility for this or his behaviour - but I was brought up being made to believe it was my fault.

I recently received a torrent of abuse via WhatsApp from him after a relatively minor disagreement on a news story I wasn't interested in (Harry and Meghan). It happened just as I started a week on-call as the most senior clinician, and I found I couldn't concentrate because of the things that he said echoing in my mind. Stuff that referred to things when I was less than half my current age, and hugely hurtful.

Why should I allow this in my life? An I risking the things I'm responsible for by doing this? My wife has pointed out I'm in a foul mood if I've been arguing with him about something. Is that fair on my wife and children?

Re: A shift in American family values is fueling estrangement

#514

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me personally there are aspects I don't like about myself that are clearly a result of how my parents raised me. As a much younger man I was bitter about this, but I came to realize that my parents are human and made some mistakes, but over all did sacrifice a lot for my and my sister's well being. I also realized we didn't do a lot to make raising us any easier. So rather than remain resentful towards them, I ju…

Sadly, when I was young adult, I knew my parents were not perfect and was happy with everything they did for me. They, like typical Asian parents, were always criticizing but I learned to ignore it. It wasn't much later when I had my own child, they finally broke me. Not only they set high expectations for how I will help them have relationship with their grandchild, and criticizing our parenting, but also started cr…

Stay positive! This is a good incentive to break out of this toxic tradition/behaviour. Now you have a good idea of what not to do. You might even tell your parents this conclusion.

Re: A shift in American family values is fueling estrangement

#515
post #509
post #503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've lived about as good a life as it is possible to live, and I still totally understand someone who prefers the void. Sometimes I prefer the void, especially when I contemplate what is likely to transpire in the next few decades given current trends, particularly with respect to climate change.

But the void isn't peace or existence - it's just nothingness. You are able to, at least, helplessly curse the world you see in front of you - without life there is absolutely nothing, there is no you to contemplate the changes or appreciate the peace of not living through them. You simply are not. (and sorry if this is a bit deep or morose)

Yes, I get that. We all know what the void is like: it's the state we were all in before we were born. It's not at all clear to me that that will be worse than witnessing the collapse of civilization, which is not at all unlikely to happen in the lifetime of many of the people hanging out here on HN.

Re: A shift in American family values is fueling estrangement

#516
post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lot of "Fox News robbed me of my parents" stories out there. https://www.salon.com/2014/02/27/i_lost_my_dad_to_fox_news_h... (2014, situation has generally got worse!) https://captainawkward.com/2020/12/09/1304-fox-news-stole-my...

I think the outrage culture is prevalent with pretty much all the news networks starting with CNN and on down the list. You can replace %foxnews% with any of them. At family gatherings, find something else to talk about. I mean, people did have conversations 30 years ago, right?

> find something else to talk about

Not sure if you clicked on the links or have any first hand experience with this phenomenon, but that's exactly the problem: conservative family members always find a way to steer the conversation back to politics. They don't live in the real world anymore, everything relates back to their political outrage. And if you do anything but agree with them, they immediately become defensive and act like you started attacking them for no reason. The only option is to pretend you're in a room full of tourettes patients who can't help what they're saying and shouldn't be taken seriously.

Re: A shift in American family values is fueling estrangement

#517
post #497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it really that hard to just ignore these things when your parents say them? I have Republican parents and I just smile and nod whenever they say something crazy. It's extremely easy.

That’s fine and dandy if the “crazy” things they say aren’t directly attacking ones way of life or values. My parents seem to have viscerally negative physical reactions to even the sight of black people and gay men (lesbians seem to be fine!?) and it’s disgusting. If conservative news were just about foreign policy and taxes we could have our disagreements but it is more insidious than that because identity politics…

Or — relevant to this forum — personal attacks. It doesn't even have to be about normal identity politics stuff.

I get harassed by family about how awful I am for working in “tech” after both platforms axed Trumps accounts. (FWIW, I don’t work for a social media company. I'm extremely proud of my work. It saves lives. There is literally nothing controversial about what I do. But "tech bad" is now a News Max talking point.)

Coming to a thanksgiving near you.

Re: A shift in American family values is fueling estrangement

#518
post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lot of "Fox News robbed me of my parents" stories out there. https://www.salon.com/2014/02/27/i_lost_my_dad_to_fox_news_h... (2014, situation has generally got worse!) https://captainawkward.com/2020/12/09/1304-fox-news-stole-my...

I think the outrage culture is prevalent with pretty much all the news networks starting with CNN and on down the list. You can replace %foxnews% with any of them. At family gatherings, find something else to talk about. I mean, people did have conversations 30 years ago, right?

I haven't even had close family members involved with this stuff. But of the now-ex-friends who jump into conspiracy-theory-politics, there's no finding neutral ground. They seek out the topics and things can't ordinary. I'd imagine families have the same problem.

Re: A shift in American family values is fueling estrangement

#519
I got estranged from my parents because my wife and they did not get along well. Towards the end, I would call my mother once a week. I could never make my wife get along with my mom. One day , my mother said something that annoyed my wife. I called my mother and had an angry conversation and hung up the phone. She had high fever but did not call for about 10 days. She died of stomach cancer two weeks later. To this day I am unable to forgive myself for it and regret what I did. My life is so full of such regrets that it becomes unbearable and wish I were dead.

Re: A shift in American family values is fueling estrangement

#520

My mother never once hugged me. She told me she loved me once, when I was in hospital after a road accident almost tore my left leg off. She used to explode with fury at seemingly random things, screaming and lashing out with a stick. My childhood was often spent just staying out of her way. Yes, I'm a very touch-averse and anxious person. She denies these things ever happened. She wonders why I moved to the other si…

I had the same relationship with both my parents. I got so little positive reinforcement in my life that I had to practice thanking people giving me praise because it was so odd to me. Part of me doesn't want to get married or have kids just because I've seen the horrible ball and chain it can be with both my parents.
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