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Sega sued for ‘rigged’ arcade machine

polygon.com

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Re: Sega sued for ‘rigged’ arcade machine

#11

Post by musicale »

IIRC the argument that they use for "rigged" machines like this (including most claw machines, Stacker, Key Master, etc.) is that it's not technically random. But for all practical purposes it is random for the average player who walks up to the machine (or worse if non-sucker players are exploiting the machine's algorithm) so such machines really should:

1) be advertised and regulated as games of chance (e.g. being required to disclose the odds of winning, etc.)

2) be subject to FTC rules about deceptive advertising

Re: Sega sued for ‘rigged’ arcade machine

#12

Post by musicale »

tracedddd wrote: post #5

The stacker game with the moving blocks always frustrated me, I spent way too much money trying to win that one and got quite good at everything but the last round. I wonder if that one is rigged too.

Yeah, the last round of Stacker is rigged/random.

Re: Sega sued for ‘rigged’ arcade machine

#13

Post by eihli »

Had an idea when I saw one of these on a cruise ship.

Every time we spent time within eyesight of the machine, I timed it and counted how many plays went in. After a couple of days, I had something resembling an average number of plays per hour. The machine was one where the prizes were visible, so you could tell how many had been won.

Now I had a bound on the number of plays per prize.

Estimate number of plays based on amount of time passed. Check if prize has been claimed. If not, it's due.

You don't have to be too accurate with your numbers. Just get within ~50% to beat the vig.

Re: Sega sued for ‘rigged’ arcade machine

#14

Post by Bluecobra »

Cerealkiller050 wrote: post #2

I remember seeing and playing this on a cruise ship. It was a dollar per try, and I shoved in 5 bucks. By the 4th try it was NOTICEABLE that if you press the button at the "right time", there was a lag before it overshot it and you failed. I pretty much could guess that something like the article discusses was at work, and was simply more a game of luck. Obviously I stopped after that, as a pure luck game is not as f…

I played this in a cruise casino as well, knowing full well that the odds were stacked against me in international waters. I didn’t win. Near the end of the 10 day voyage the machine was mostly empty, I wonder if anyone actually won or they just removed the cash to make it look like it’s a winner.

Re: Sega sued for ‘rigged’ arcade machine

#15

Post by boomboomsubban »

sunshineforever wrote: post #9

You know the horribly irony is that wagering machines that are 100% skill based are illegal. The only exception, I've seen "The Fishing Game" in a texas bar. It's a 2D game where you shoot fish in a pool table like screen. Bullets cost money, fish death pays out.

Are they illegal or just uncommon because they could be abusable? As if they were illegal wouldn't things like rewards for a hole in one, or "guess" how many the beans in a jar would be illegal? Plus aren't most carnival games technically 100% skill?

Re: Sega sued for ‘rigged’ arcade machine

#16

Post by LaserDiscMan »

tracedddd wrote: post #5

The stacker game with the moving blocks always frustrated me, I spent way too much money trying to win that one and got quite good at everything but the last round. I wonder if that one is rigged too.

Stacker is definitely rigged: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofEb9fM8m0Q&t=214s

Re: Sega sued for ‘rigged’ arcade machine

#17

Post by dml2135 »

musicale wrote: post #11

IIRC the argument that they use for "rigged" machines like this (including most claw machines, Stacker, Key Master, etc.) is that it's not technically random. But for all practical purposes it is random for the average player who walks up to the machine (or worse if non-sucker players are exploiting the machine's algorithm) so such machines really should: 1) be advertised and regulated as games of chance (e.g. being…

I think they are currently subject to FTC rules against deceptive advertising -- isn't that the basis of this lawsuit? However, FTC rules are only enforced civilly by damaged parties, IIRC. I don't think the agency engages in any proactive enforcement of false advertising laws. But someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

Re: Sega sued for ‘rigged’ arcade machine

#18

Post by eli »

erdos4d wrote: post #10
Something1234 wrote: post #3

State gaming boards really need to investigate arcades in general. They are much worse than the casino with the same kinds of games, but a much worse payout. I once calculated it out when I was on a bus trip I would get back 70% of what I put in (n=$100). At the arcade you're lucky to get 5 cents back, and most of the time the games are not even fun. We need to put together a team of experts to audit all of these mac…

I mean, given the cash-only nature of the business, I'd be very surprised if most arcades weren't laundering money these days too.

Most arcades I’ve been to recently use prepaid cards you top off with a credit card

Re: Sega sued for ‘rigged’ arcade machine

#19

Post by AussieWog93 »

eli wrote: post #18
erdos4d wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, given the cash-only nature of the business, I'd be very surprised if most arcades weren't laundering money these days too.

Most arcades I’ve been to recently use prepaid cards you top off with a credit card

My experience is the same at dedicated arcades, but not at the random machines in shopping centres etc.

Re: Sega sued for ‘rigged’ arcade machine

#20

Post by danans »

As an aside, I had no idea Sega were still making "old fashioned" mechanical games, which is how they started with slot machines and jukeboxes in the 1940s. I thought they had long since become a mobile game and IP licensing company (i.e. Sonic the Hedgehog)
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