The vital art of talking to strangers • Hacker News Board

Re: The vital art of talking to strangers

#181

Post by iammisc » Wed, Jul 14, 2021, 9:54 PM UTC

sunshineforever wrote: post #143

edmundsauto wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not a religious person or church goer, but are the perspectives really that different? To me, it looks like a church is a self selected group of geographically proximate people who tend to look alike and dress alike. You don't usually see much ethnic diversity in a church photo. It's more diverse than sitting at home, but I think exposure to a few TV shows has more diversity of thought, ethnicity, sexuality, etc…

I am completely behind this as a person who technically might seem like a stereotypical radical to "one side". Empathy, the "Message of Christ", the Buddhist quest to end suffering, this is the fundamental goal and idea that drives my beliefs. The true revolution is to care for others with love. IMO the crisis of the USA is that there is so much selfish lack of awareness or empathy everywhere. Yes, Republicans are mo…

> Yes, Republicans are more famous for being psychopathic and heartless but if you think for a second that manyyy of the woke are not needlessly creul to others and uaware of certain aspects of reality than you're not seeing the full picture.

It's funny because to most republicans, the democrats and the woke are the ones who are psycopathically cruel.

This is why I can't help but feel there is an unbridgeable gap in our society.

Each party not only thinks the others are misguided, but actually cartoonishly psycopathic villains. It's no wonder everyone's so mad all the time.

> I also think we need to abandon most all labels in favor of descriptive beliefs. The label is only 50 percent effective unless it comes with 100 other labels. We are truly never even one of them in our individuality.

Except if you tell Republicans about democratic beliefs, they'll still think they're cruel (same is true vice versa I imagine). People actually believe in the things the parties stand for, even if it's not popular to mention that now.

I don't understand the feel good centrism. People have real differences in opinion that are not due to what they listened to on Fox or read in Mother Jones. The trick is to both disagree and be decent. I personally believe we've lost that.

Re: The vital art of talking to strangers

#182

Post by iammisc » Wed, Jul 14, 2021, 10:00 PM UTC

edmundsauto wrote: post #161

ceilingcorner wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Catholic Church is probably the single most ethnically diverse organization on the face of the earth. https://www.pewforum.org/2013/02/13/the-global-catholic-popu...

Right, but the context here is in people attending their local church. Your point is like saying that America is so diverse - it is, but how much do the different ethnicities actually interact?

Catholic churches are the most integrated denomination. And Catholics are the group most likely to intermarry between ethnicities. Speaking of my own family, my brother and I are both married to women of different ethnicities (and differing ethnicities at that).

Sources:

[1] https://www.jbhe.com/2018/07/americas-churches-are-becoming-...

[2] http://blogs.thearda.com/trend/featured/the-ties-that-may-no...

> The only exceptions were Catholics. Catholics were almost twice as likely to be in an intermarriage and Catholics who attended services more frequently were slightly more likely to be in an intermarriage, the researchers found.

It's more than just your local parish though. When I visited Hungary, it was amazing to go to a church where I didn't speak the language, but still be able to feel totally 'at home', because it was a church, and they were saying mass. Even though it was in Hungarian, I understood exactly what was going on. Then when I visited India, which couldn't be further from Hungary, I had the same experience.

Re: The vital art of talking to strangers

#183

Post by iammisc » Wed, Jul 14, 2021, 10:03 PM UTC

mcavoybn wrote: post #164

iammisc wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is a valid criticism, but seeing as that we've replaced church with ... nothing, I still find it difficult to imagine that my vision of society would be worse than the one we're living in. The truth is that despite decades of trying, the secular regular get-together groups for people without any unifying interests or socioeconomic status have utterly failed. For most people, church is the only place they…

>the secular regular get-together groups for people without any unifying interests or socioeconomic status Unfortunately, I don't think what you are describing ever existed. Every "get-together-group" I can think of has some kind of common interest, even if its something as simple as drinking coffee or reading books. I think your attachment to the church has a lot more to do with your emotions than thinking rationall…

> Io make the argument "The economy was shut down last year and there is a massive issue in our society with depression and loneliness as a result, but it's what those liberals deserve for leaving the church!" is asinine.

What? I never made that argument. You're putting words in my mouth and calling me asinine. Please actually respond to what I wrote.

> Are the bible, history of the church, the nature of reality, and developing a community not shared interests?

Nature of reality is more than an interest in my view. If you can't agree on reality, then no amount of shared interests can cover that gap.

As for the bible, history of the church, and community development... I guess those could be shared interests. But if you've ever met many Catholics, few are interested in the bible, even fewer in church history. We do like drinking and eating together though, so we got that! But other than super uppity social clubs, I've never really seen a dinner group achieve the success of the church, so i'm forced to conclude the religious aspect has something to do with it.

Re: The vital art of talking to strangers

#184

Post by munificent » Wed, Jul 14, 2021, 10:11 PM UTC

iammisc wrote: post #106

munificent wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think church is great for mixing up people who differ professionally and socioeconomically. But at least in the US it has also very much deepened the racial and (obviously) religious lines between people.

> But at least in the US it has also very much deepened the racial and (obviously) religious lines between people. Not clear at all. Catholics for example are the most likely group to marry interracially. Religiously, I don't see the christian sects as very divided, despite their many differences. There seems to be a large set of common ground. Even amongst religions, there is a lot of good will. I can't think of any…

> Not clear at all. Catholics for example are the most likely group to marry interracially.

Catholicism is an outlier here:

About half of people who attend church once a year or never said they had dated interracially; just 27 percent of respondents who attend weekly or more reported dating a person of another race, according to a study using data from the 2007 Baylor Religion Survey.

http://blogs.thearda.com/trend/featured/the-ties-that-may-no...

> Religiously, I don't see the christian sects as very divided, despite their many differences.

It matters less how you personally see this than it does how church-goers in aggregate feel and behave. Certainly, growing up in the South, it was abundantly clear that there were black churches and white churches and that the two very rarely mixed.

The KKK is an explicitly anti-Black, anti-Catholic, anti-Jew, pro-Protestant Christianity organization. Its self-stated reason for existence is to push down members of other religions and races. You can argue that these members aren't "real Christians", but they are sure as hell going to church and their fellow church-goers think they are.

*> I can't think of any widespread religious riot in the US (I could totally be wrong though).

It has a Wikipedia category:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Religiously_motivated...

Re: The vital art of talking to strangers

#185

Post by munificent » Wed, Jul 14, 2021, 10:13 PM UTC

nate_meurer wrote: post #102

ssully wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I too long for the days past when the US had less cultural problems/conflicts due to high church attendance numbers.

I know right? What happened to the good old days when the big mainstream church organizations like the SBC were fighting the good fight against evils such as interracial marriage and civil rights?

Don't forget delightful religious advocacy fraternal organizations like the KKK.

Re: The vital art of talking to strangers

#186

Post by munificent » Wed, Jul 14, 2021, 10:14 PM UTC

coding123 wrote: post #133

alisonatwork wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a little bit different when it's outside the family, though. Inside the family, a homophobic parent might feel emasculated, or like a failure, if their kid turns out to be gay. But when meeting an adult gay couple at a social function, or working with a gay colleague, the same person will probably at least remain cordial, if not explicitly supportive.

don't search for "angry public" on youtube, it may change your perception of the world. 99% of my problems in the world are related to the random public, not my family.

I mean, you're basically self-manufacturing bias and then claiming the bias reflects reality.

If you search for "red heads" on YouTube you'll end up thinking everyone is a ginger.

Re: The vital art of talking to strangers

#187

Post by HeckFeck » Wed, Jul 14, 2021, 10:16 PM UTC

JSavageOne wrote: post #162

One's life completely opens up when one realizes that it's possible to talk to strangers and meet friends / romantic partners anywhere, anytime, in any situation. Sure most interactions may not amount to much other than sharing a moment, but every now and then you make a friend or even romantic partner that makes it all worth it and then some. Walking outside goes from being what may have been a mere mundane chore, t…

If I may share a personal anecdote, I went through a lot before I even had the courage to do this. Then one of those chance encounters with strangers led to a great friendship. So I'm commenting to verify your story.

Though I need to do it more, it is very difficult to break this old habit which I believe was developed as a necessary survival strategy in my young days. The cynic inside me believes that I was broken in an effort to keep me around, from people who otherwise had nothing positive to offer. I sometimes wonder how many other people are being held at emotional gunpoint for the same reasons...

Re: The vital art of talking to strangers

#188

Post by munificent » Wed, Jul 14, 2021, 10:17 PM UTC

watwut wrote: post #168

munificent wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can't tell you how many people whose views or mannerisms I hate, and who I can't stand being around. Forcing me to eat with anyone, let alone strangers, would only make me dislike them more and cause tension. I think you are either an unusual outlier or are very much underestimating how well you can get along with people different from you when sharing a meal with them in person . People are not who they appear t…

You never spend dinner with people who spent that time being condescending or insulting something close to you? You can get along with them easily. But then it ends and you are happy it ended and never want to be there again. Because getting along with them requires you swallowing all above, pretending it is ok. Acvepting situation in which they talk and you are silent or submissive.

> You never spend dinner with people who spent that time being condescending or insulting something close to you?

Oh, sure.

I've probably also inadvertently been the one who was condescending or insulting before too. People are fallible and some fraction of them are pretty shitty.

But my experience is that the fraction is low enough that it's worth rolling the dice to find new connections with the larger fraction of people that are generally pretty good. I can take an insult or a boring conversation.

> Acvepting situation in which they talk and you are silent or submissive.

I think human interaction is a lot more varied than a binary choice between arguing or rolling over.

Re: The vital art of talking to strangers

#189

Post by munificent » Wed, Jul 14, 2021, 10:18 PM UTC

coding123 wrote: post #130

munificent wrote: post #15

I have a hypothesis that almost all of the US's current cultural problems would be solved if once a month we all cooked and shared a meal with another randomly chosen family.

if forced, be prepared for a lot of murders on those nights.

We will sort out our differences one way or another!

Re: The vital art of talking to strangers

#190

Post by MarcScott » Wed, Jul 14, 2021, 10:18 PM UTC

I can talk to strangers for hours with confidence and honest interest in what they have to say, but only as long as the stranger and I have a pretext to be talking.

Sit me and a stranger down in a room and tell us we have to talk about our opinions on package management, the best BBQ recepies or the latest Marvel film and I'm happy.

It's the small talk crap that I can't deal with. When I'm in a line at a supermarket, I neither want to talk to my fellow shoppers or the checkout person. I don't want friendly banter from the person selling me beer at the pub. I can't be bothered with trying to turn a pleasantry, exchanged while holding a lift door, into a fleeting relationship.