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Germany fines YouTube for removing video of anti-lockdown protest

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Re: Germany fines YouTube for removing video of anti-lockdown protest

#61

Post by syshum »

eli wrote: post #40
anm89 wrote: post #8

Naval Ravikant seems to be a divisive figure here but I think he made a profound point when he discussed this topic on Joe Rogan's podcast. The point was that, as a platform, you cross a line which is very difficult to ever revert when you optionally censor your platform in response to political pressure because both sides are then forced from a game theory perspective to aggressively pursue censoring your platform i…

> They caved to censoring things that were reasonable, but now anyone can make them censor anything as long as they have some poltical power somewhere. Can you define "reasonable" here in an objective way that we could all agree on? There's no such thing as neutrality. Leaving up a popular anti-vax video is just as political a decision as taking it down.

Platforms that claim to be open content systems (i.e it is not topic limited like say a Mac Forum) should only remove content that is illegal in nature, i.e Sexual Exploitation of minors, True Threats, etc.

> popular anti-vax

since Anti-Vax has now been refined to include anyone that opposes government mandated vaccinations, I am a Vaxxed Anti-Vaxer as I oppose all government mandates. People should be free to choose on their own if they want a vaccine or any other medical treatment.

So should a video of me expressing this position be removed under an "anti-vaxx" policy?

Re: Germany fines YouTube for removing video of anti-lockdown protest

#62

Post by root_axis »

scotty79 wrote: post #35
xxpor wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

State violence is being used to force a private company to host content it finds objectionable. Who's the technocrat here?

Platform shouldn't have the right to an opinion on content. Same way that when you open a store you can't pick and choose your customers. Platforms should just obey law and at most create a process where users and lawmakers can express and enforce their opinion on content.

> Platform shouldn't have the right to an opinion on content.

Why?

> Same way that when you open a store you can't pick and choose your customers.

Of course you can, you just can't refuse service based on legally protected classes, that's the exception not the rule.

> Platforms should just obey law and at most create a process where users and lawmakers can express and enforce their opinion on content.

Platforms should operate their sites however they like within the confines of the law and individual users can decide which sites they prefer to use based on how those sites operate.

Re: Germany fines YouTube for removing video of anti-lockdown protest

#63

Post by deadalus »

rickstanley wrote: post #48
deadalus wrote: post #32

Youtube Alternatives : Centralized : Dailymotion, Bitchute, Rumble, DTube, Vimeo, Vidlii Decentralized : Odysee(LBRY), Peertube

How does one contribute to these (de)centralized alternatives? Apart from sharing links?

You can upload videos and help seed videos too.

Other ways to help are here : https://lbry.tech/contribute

Re: Germany fines YouTube for removing video of anti-lockdown protest

#64

Post by rolobio »

chapium wrote: post #6
throwawayswede wrote: post #2

Good. I'd rather live in chaos than a world controlled by these technocrats. Let's do Twitter while we're at it.

I don't understand this, is controlling youtube's database that google hosts equivalent to controlling the "world"?

Not yet, but its close. How many people know how to search the internet without Google? Google has become so ubiquitous that people are totally reliant on them. Look at Tulsi Gabbard, her advertising account was "accidentally" taken down after a successful presidential debate, making it so people couldn't find her.

Sure they're a private company, and they made a mistake. But the direction of the mistakes are always in the direction the people running the company lean politically.

https://web.archive.org/web/20210322220851/https://www.nytim...

Re: Germany fines YouTube for removing video of anti-lockdown protest

#66

Post by partiallypro »

pbreit wrote: post #55
anm89 wrote: post #8

Naval Ravikant seems to be a divisive figure here but I think he made a profound point when he discussed this topic on Joe Rogan's podcast. The point was that, as a platform, you cross a line which is very difficult to ever revert when you optionally censor your platform in response to political pressure because both sides are then forced from a game theory perspective to aggressively pursue censoring your platform i…

"They caved to censoring things that were reasonable" I'd argue that much of their censorship was not reasonable at all. None of it was illegal. Mostly just differences of opinion. My "information" is your "misinformation".

I think OP means they were censoring things that weren't objectionable (offensive, etc,) and they were removing "reasonable" things that were opinions, etc. Maybe I'm wrong, but that is where Twitter/Facebook/etc have lost me; by censoring things that aren't harmful they've opened pandora's box.

Re: Germany fines YouTube for removing video of anti-lockdown protest

#67

Post by tvirosi »

anm89 wrote: post #8

Naval Ravikant seems to be a divisive figure here but I think he made a profound point when he discussed this topic on Joe Rogan's podcast. The point was that, as a platform, you cross a line which is very difficult to ever revert when you optionally censor your platform in response to political pressure because both sides are then forced from a game theory perspective to aggressively pursue censoring your platform i…

*Naval Ravikant (I thought there was something off with your version.)

Re: Germany fines YouTube for removing video of anti-lockdown protest

#68

Post by duxup »

anm89 wrote: post #8

Naval Ravikant seems to be a divisive figure here but I think he made a profound point when he discussed this topic on Joe Rogan's podcast. The point was that, as a platform, you cross a line which is very difficult to ever revert when you optionally censor your platform in response to political pressure because both sides are then forced from a game theory perspective to aggressively pursue censoring your platform i…

There's no avoiding this even if you don't " censor your platform in response to political pressure " because everyone assumes that is the case and the game is on...

It's not a case of deciding to:

>optionally censor your platform in response to political pressure

Because so many people assume that if some content is removed and it is well then that must have been because of political pressure or views at that company or something like that.

So by default:

> The platform ends up being collateral damage in some political war

Even if the content removed wasn't removed due to political pressure the accusations fly and the game begins.

Nobody is forced by a platform's actions to play the game, the sad truth is people will believe the game is on all the times to explain anything they don't like / don't understand.

Rudy Giuliani thought that Twitter was 'allowing' someone to post content to his account without his permission ... but really he had posted a link to a domain that didn't exist, then someone registered and had some fun with him.

Rudy of course just filled in the blanks of his ignorance with concerns of bias by Twitter... and there's A LOT of people who do that (with all sorts of political views).

We had an article here on HN where up and down votes changed on YouTube ... it was interpreted by some immediately as some sort of political bias.

Have a platform? You're in the game...

Re: Germany fines YouTube for removing video of anti-lockdown protest

#69

Post by kthejoker2 »

throwawayswede wrote: post #46
anm89 wrote: post #8

Naval Ravikant seems to be a divisive figure here but I think he made a profound point when he discussed this topic on Joe Rogan's podcast. The point was that, as a platform, you cross a line which is very difficult to ever revert when you optionally censor your platform in response to political pressure because both sides are then forced from a game theory perspective to aggressively pursue censoring your platform i…

> They caved to censoring things that were reasonable, but now anyone can make them censor anything as long as they have some poltical power somewhere. On some level, we have to acknowledge that whoever is running the shitshow at youtube and twitter are actually responsible as well, in that they believe they know enough to literally dictate what everyone in the world should see and read. For example banning Trump fro…

There is a ton of actual evidence that removing bad actors improves the quality of information on social networks:

https://www.axios.com/reddit-hate-speech-policies-reduction-...

https://www.vox.com/2021/1/16/22234971/trump-twitter-faceboo...

Re: Germany fines YouTube for removing video of anti-lockdown protest

#70

Post by [deleted] »

throwawayswede wrote: post #46
anm89 wrote: post #8

Naval Ravikant seems to be a divisive figure here but I think he made a profound point when he discussed this topic on Joe Rogan's podcast. The point was that, as a platform, you cross a line which is very difficult to ever revert when you optionally censor your platform in response to political pressure because both sides are then forced from a game theory perspective to aggressively pursue censoring your platform i…

> They caved to censoring things that were reasonable, but now anyone can make them censor anything as long as they have some poltical power somewhere. On some level, we have to acknowledge that whoever is running the shitshow at youtube and twitter are actually responsible as well, in that they believe they know enough to literally dictate what everyone in the world should see and read. For example banning Trump fro…

[deleted]
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