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A shift in American family values is fueling estrangement

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Re: A shift in American family values is fueling estrangement

#211

Post by watwut »

wonderwonder wrote: post #172
GavinMcG wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Toxic" is just a catchier-sounding synonym for "harmful." It doesn't imply intent — in fact, that's one of its strengths, and one of the major components in the shift in the way we collectively talk about things over the past couple decades. Part of the conversation around race, for example, has been an awareness by more and more people that unintentional harms are far more prevalent than intentional ones, and in to…

I think if your kid grows up knowing you love them and you do your best to educate and teach them right from wrong then you are probably a good enough parent. "Personally, I think putting that reckoning front and center is a good thing" I really disagree. If you parent was a monster, then absolutely. Otherwise, if they met the 3 points above then what good does calling them out and telling them that what they did was…

People estranged from parents are often reacting to parents still doing harm. It dont stop when kid grow - the narcisstic or controlling or abusive parent dont change when kid grows.

Re: A shift in American family values is fueling estrangement

#212

Post by tonyedgecombe »

queuebert wrote: post #154
polka_haunts_us wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a politics shifted perspective of this, sometime late last year before prayer before meal, my mom was talking happily about how she hoped Jeff Bezos got the guillotine. Just before "Bless us O Lord and these thy gifts...", "Boy wouldn't it be funny if a mob necked Bezos". Her main news sources are Salon and Twitter threads of various left (Bernie or more) wing writers. I remember referencing the incident a couple…

I didn't mean this to be one sided. It just happens that my parents were right wingers. Yes, it's happening on both sides.

I suspect it's leaning more to the right for older generations.

Re: A shift in American family values is fueling estrangement

#213

Post by thebiss »

kenjackson wrote: post #109
pmichaud wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I mean, this is the claim / supposition: this isn't new, it's just not hidden anymore. But I think it's worth questioning whether the supposition is true or not, and not in the sense of "can I think of any examples of a dysfunctional family being exposed now that would not have been back then?" because when you're talking about a large population you can find examples of pretty much anything (including that a lo…

The three biggest things I’ve seen cause estrangement are: 1. Coming out. I suspect that gay people always existed, but just didn’t come out. 2. Interracial relationships. Far less common in the past. And society doesn’t view them as negatively now, which changes the power balance. 3. Parental affairs. I suspect this is the one that always happened, but people just lived with it more. From my anecdotal list the probl…

5. Addiction

Adultery, abuse, and addiction are not new.

Re: A shift in American family values is fueling estrangement

#214

Post by jdavis703 »

samatman wrote: post #181
hackeraccount wrote: post #139

We're all living that Asian family joke. Parents spend their whole lives waiting for their kids to thank you. Kids spend their whole lives waiting for their parent to say "I'm sorry." That said I've never felt that way about my Mom and Dad. I've faults and problems a plenty but I wouldn't ascribe any of that on them; indeed the best things about me seem to clearly come from them and the worst are just as clearly thin…

Yes, but for many of us in the West, without the tradition common to East and South Asians of reciprocal obligation. This used to be nigh unto a human universal: your parents raise you up from a helpless infant to adulthood, and this obliges you to love and care for them for the rest of their lives. I'm as deracinated Westerner as it comes, and yet I'm fairly traditional in this regard. I can think of three acceptabl…

What about people raised by single parents? What do they owe to the absentee parent?

Re: A shift in American family values is fueling estrangement

#215

Post by Apocryphon »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #192
bigbillheck wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As if"virtue signaling" isn't at least as bad a tell.

What other word can be used to describe that behavior? If there was one that carried the same "doesn't really care just wants to be seen saying a particular thing" connotation without triggering half the left people would instantly adopt it because there are tons of instances where you see that kind of behavior and want to call it out. Grandstanding is also close but carries the wrong connotations of wanting to influ…

There are plenty of specific phrasing that can be applicable. "Feigning outrage." "Speaking in bad faith." "Muttering meaningless shibboleths." Virtue signaling itself has become a virtue signal, an empty jargon that denotes the user as a particular tribe.

Re: A shift in American family values is fueling estrangement

#216

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

hackeraccount wrote: post #139

We're all living that Asian family joke. Parents spend their whole lives waiting for their kids to thank you. Kids spend their whole lives waiting for their parent to say "I'm sorry." That said I've never felt that way about my Mom and Dad. I've faults and problems a plenty but I wouldn't ascribe any of that on them; indeed the best things about me seem to clearly come from them and the worst are just as clearly thin…

For me personally there are aspects I don't like about myself that are clearly a result of how my parents raised me. As a much younger man I was bitter about this, but I came to realize that my parents are human and made some mistakes, but over all did sacrifice a lot for my and my sister's well being. I also realized we didn't do a lot to make raising us any easier. So rather than remain resentful towards them, I just let it go and started working to fix the things about me I didn't like.

Re: A shift in American family values is fueling estrangement

#217

Post by weakfish »

samatman wrote: post #197
weregiraffe wrote: post #183

They fuck you up, your mum and dad. They may not mean to, but they do. They fill you with the faults they had And add some extra, just for you. But they were fucked up in their turn By fools in old-style hats and coats, Who half the time were soppy-stern And half at one another’s throats. Man hands on misery to man. It deepens like a coastal shelf. Get out as early as you can, And don’t have any kids yourself.

I despise this poem.

This isn't very constructive.

Re: A shift in American family values is fueling estrangement

#218

Post by cronix »

wonderwonder wrote: post #36

Wonder how much of this is driven by social media and the internet today. The word 'Toxic' is just thrown around now and everything is 'Toxic'. Its a word that has ceased to have any real meaning but virtually every behavior that used to just be normal every day activity is Toxic. Everyone has flaws and no one has all the answers. Parents are just people doing the best they can and for the most part making what they…

That, and the "news." If you watch CNN/MSNBC/NBC/CBS/ABC/PBS you are led to think that anyone who supports Republicans is the devil and only show things that support that viewpoint. You rarely see them agree with anything the Republican put forth. If you watch FOX/OAN or other similar networks, you are led to think that anyone who supports the Democrats are the devil. You rarely see anything in a positive light. It's as though each side is incapable of doing anything the other side might also agree with. The extremist language on all networks has gone into overdrive. It's interesting if you take a few weeks and watch all sides, as unbiased as you can, and listen to the names and language they use towards each other. They are chalk full of specific buzzwords, which are inflammatory. Seriously, transcribe them and look at the unnecessary adjectives used to "tell a story." Count them. Hundreds uttered every 30 minutes. It's a ratings show for them, but ripping the rest of us apart.

Re: A shift in American family values is fueling estrangement

#219

Post by js290 »

Religion & culture keeps most people out of trouble most of the time... "the absence of religion... replaced by all kinds of crazy beliefs... you realize there's no religious fundamentalism that's more irrational than an atheist's primitive use of probability" http://bit.ly/2Hi4pNK

Re: A shift in American family values is fueling estrangement

#220

Post by seattle_spring »

pseudalopex wrote: post #112
kenjackson wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The three biggest things I’ve seen cause estrangement are: 1. Coming out. I suspect that gay people always existed, but just didn’t come out. 2. Interracial relationships. Far less common in the past. And society doesn’t view them as negatively now, which changes the power balance. 3. Parental affairs. I suspect this is the one that always happened, but people just lived with it more. From my anecdotal list the probl…

4. Abuse. Did you mean they aren't actually new?

I think verbal abuse in particular is getting more deserved attention than it has in the past.
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