One by One, My Friends Were Sent to the Camps • Hacker News Board

Re: One by One, My Friends Were Sent to the Camps

#91

Post by kragen » Wed, Jul 14, 2021, 2:38 PM UTC

elliekelly wrote: post #83

VictorPath wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China has been facing a series of Uighur terrorist attacks. The US faced one day of attacks loosely related to Muslims living on the western border of Xinjiang, and the US just had a (partial!) withdrawal from there this month after 20 years there (or more going back to the 1970s). The US going to the other side of the world, while the Chinese are dealing with a threat in their own country. Puzzling to see the same A…

There is no evidence the subject of the article is a terrorist. The “terrorism” story presented by the government is pretext.

Of course there isn't any evidence that he is (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Tahir_Hamut_Izgil is empty), but aside from the terrorist campaign being conducted by the government against opposition, there is also an active terrorist campaign in Xinjiang being conducted by Uighur dissidents against the Chinese government: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_conflict#Terrorist_gr...

Re: One by One, My Friends Were Sent to the Camps

#92

Post by aidenn0 » Wed, Jul 14, 2021, 2:41 PM UTC

djrogers wrote: post #57

aidenn0 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard of tweets taken down, but always assumed Twitter was self censoring

If Twitter censors based on gov't guidelines, suggestions, or threats, is it really 'self-censoring'? [1] https://taibbi.substack.com/p/a-case-of-intellectual-capture...

We are taking about censoring of anti CCP tweets, which seems much more likely to be about money than (US) government interference

Re: One by One, My Friends Were Sent to the Camps

#93

Post by ModernMech » Wed, Jul 14, 2021, 2:55 PM UTC

rideontime wrote: post #84

fencepost wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right now under their "Most Popular" column, the top article has "Trump" in it. Trump has been out of office for over 6 months, Have you somehow failed to notice that the former guy is both legitimately significant in the news (legal troubles, ongoing "fraudit" movements) and the defacto leader of US Republicans?

Every time I see "the former guy" I read it as "he who must not be named." What is the origin of this and why do people do it?

> What is the origin of this

Joe Biden originally said it to highlight that Trump is the former President, at a time when Trump and his supporters were insisting that Biden's victory was fraudulent and Trump is actually still president. I imagine people are still saying this because Trump and his supporters continue to insist the election was stolen, and Trump is the rightful occupant of the White House.

  “I’m tired of talking about Donald Trump. I don’t want to talk about him anymore,” Biden said Tuesday night during a CNN town hall in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

  “For four years, all that’s been in the news is Trump,” Biden said at another point. “For the next four years, I wanna make sure the news is the American people.”

  “You had the former guy saying that, ‘Well, you know, we’re just going to open things up and that’s all we need to do.’ We said no, you’ve got to deal with the disease before you deal with getting the economy going,” Biden said.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/17/biden-steers-clear-of-trump-...

Re: One by One, My Friends Were Sent to the Camps

#94

Post by yunohn » Wed, Jul 14, 2021, 2:57 PM UTC

benrbray wrote: post #75

yunohn wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sure, there is plenty of room for improvement I imagine that you probably care more than the average American. But saying there’s room for improvement, while the USA has the largest military presence in the world, and uses it to bully everyone else, is quite frightening for the non-West. > Vietnam and Iraq wars It’s exactly these (older) examples which I am talking about. The West continues to fuel atrocities in th…

For the record, I mentioned Vietnam and Iraq not in the context of the present day, but because a significant proportion of Americans were very outspoken about those wars as they were happening. You're right, it's harder to remain actively informed about the day-to-day military action that accumulates into something awful. Even when we know about it, our political system doesn't give enough opportunities to give fine…

NB: I appreciate your calm responses, I hope my frustration isn’t coming across too aggressive.

> our political system doesn't give enough opportunities to give fine-grained feedback about specific issues

IMO, this is a universal problem. Sadly, while freedom of speech is useful, it is overrated relative to actionability on governance.

All the atrocities we discussed have occurred and continue to be fueled regardless of ever-present outspoken individuals.

Re: One by One, My Friends Were Sent to the Camps

#95

Post by ModernMech » Wed, Jul 14, 2021, 3:16 PM UTC

benrbray wrote: post #63

yunohn wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'll agree with them that it was awful and that my country has done evil things that I am ashamed of I think what a lot of the non-West feels is that the West has done horrible things, benefited from it, and continues to commit modern colonialism and direct/indirect exploitation of developing countries to continually benefit from them. The dissonance is in thinking that the West is no longer doing these things and…

Plenty of Americans were very outspoken against the Vietnam and Iraq wars, among other blunders. Plenty of us find the state of American politics absolutely deplorable. There is no shortage of critics. Sure, there is plenty of room for improvement. I wish more people cared about social and economic issues, and I wish those who did care were more willing to act. But at least in America it's part of the conversation.

This brings to mind the South Park episode "I'm a little bit country" (Episode 100)

Hancock: Mr. Franklin, where do you stand on the war issue?

Franklin: I believe that if we are to form a new country, we cannot be a country that appears war-hungry and violent to the rest of the world. However, we also cannot be a country that appears weak and unwilling to fight to the rest of the world. So, what if we form a country that appears to want both?

Jefferson: Yes. Yes of course. We go to war, and protest going to war at the same time.

Dickinson: Right. If the people of our new country are allowed to do whatever they wish, then some will support the war and some will protest it.

Franklin: And that means that as a nation, we could go to war with whomever we wished, but at the same time, act like we didn't want to. If we allow the people to protest what the government does, then the country will be forever blameless.

Adams: [holding a slice of chocolate cake] It's like having your cake, and eating it, too.

Congressman 2: Think of it: an entire nation founded on saying one thing and doing another.

Hancock: And we will call that country the United States of America.

Re: One by One, My Friends Were Sent to the Camps

#96

Post by shadowgovt » Wed, Jul 14, 2021, 3:20 PM UTC

throwaway316943 wrote: post #90

shadowgovt wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Assuming "we" here is the US) Trade embargo is a possibility, and the US has done it before. But only to smaller countries; it's a strongarm tactic, and the US's trade arm is not strong enough to do more damage to China's economy than the US would suffer cutting those ties. When an opposed nation is weaker than one's own, one can use sanctions and trade embargoes. When they're the same strength or larger? Trade emba…

I think 99% of Americans certainly have the stomach for it. The 1% that derive their income from skimming the difference created by cheap Chinese labor don’t.

The 1% definitely skim more, but the entire American economy benefits from China trade.

Every single item stamped "Made in China" gets more expensive if the scale of embargo or sanctions were attempted that would have political impact on China. It's easier to count the shelves in Walmart that aren't full of those products than the shelves that are. Wall street would feel it, but the impact on "main street" would also be immediate and painful.

And it's not hard for a politician to sell "Every week just got more expensive for you" as ammunition against their opponent. It's a consistent talking point regarding gas prices, and gas prices fluctuate for reasons well outside the control of any single politician. When the price spikes actually are directly the result of political policy? Easy sell to replace those politicians.

Re: One by One, My Friends Were Sent to the Camps

#97

Post by yorwba » Wed, Jul 14, 2021, 3:48 PM UTC

djrogers wrote: post #61

FemmeAndroid wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't successfully pull the article, just the introduction by a different author than the one attributed.

It's pulling the same article I see on The Atlantic now

The first part written by Tahir Hamut Izgil is titled "The police-station basement" and doesn't appear in the Outline link for me. On The Atlantic's website, it's covered by the transparent gray of their sign-up wall, but still readable.

Re: One by One, My Friends Were Sent to the Camps

#98

Post by cannabis_sam » Wed, Jul 14, 2021, 3:49 PM UTC

I’m always wondering what makes people work for this kind of surveillance apparatus…

In this concrete situation: Are they convinced of the party line that this is “combatting terrorism”, is it a civic duty, simply out of fear, or is this just me being ignorant about Chinese society?

Re: One by One, My Friends Were Sent to the Camps

#99

Post by 9999px » Wed, Jul 14, 2021, 3:59 PM UTC

cannabis_sam wrote: post #98

I’m always wondering what makes people work for this kind of surveillance apparatus… In this concrete situation: Are they convinced of the party line that this is “combatting terrorism”, is it a civic duty, simply out of fear, or is this just me being ignorant about Chinese society?

The counter-terrorism system they've conceived is worth learning about. They basically erred on the side of "too much surveillance, but alive" over "bomb them all 'til they're dead."

Given the near complete absence of terror in the region over the last few years, I'd say it worked to some end.

Re: One by One, My Friends Were Sent to the Camps

#100

Post by ilaksh » Wed, Jul 14, 2021, 4:08 PM UTC

newnamenewface wrote: post #65

ilaksh wrote: post #54

This is horrible but I think it's worse than people realize. Because this is the type of thing used to motivate world wars. Where hundreds of millions work hard to murder each other. Maybe try to find another way to stop it.

WWII was not motivated by the Holocaust. Many western nations considered that an internal matter. The actual motivation was Hitler and the axis taking a continued policy of aggression and invasion, eventually forcing conflict.

Its the type of thing used in propaganda for promoting war.