Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

A privacy war is raging inside the W3C

protocol.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

191–200 of 229 posts

Re: A privacy war is raging inside the W3C

#191

Post by tracedddd »

mehlmao wrote: post #182
breakfastduck wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where on earth are you pulling the 'begging for money' from? I've never seen that happen before. You are ultimately arguing that a business protecting my data, while also using it themselves to sell me their own products, is just as bad in other ways as a company taking my data and using it to manipulate election results, to sell to shady companies and to market the shit out of me.

iOS now hawks iCloud very aggressively. They tricked my iPad-using grandmother into paying for a storage plan she didn't need.

They do indeed. And it’s difficult for people to figure out how to get the number down instead of paying more. Personally, I have iCloud sync entirely turned off, and just manually backup the few things I actually care about.

Re: A privacy war is raging inside the W3C

#192

Post by deregulateMed »

o8r3oFTZPE wrote: post #172
csomar wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They already are by selling privacy as a "feature".

As the ad tech person interviewed in the article called it, "privacywashing" (as in "greenwashing" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_washing ).

Apple already hands your data over to the US and Chinese government.

We wouldn't know about it, but they were caught.

It's just marketing.

Re: A privacy war is raging inside the W3C

#193

Post by deadmutex »

Terretta wrote: post #180
deadmutex wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Their profits come from selling your data to others It is a common misconception that FB and Google sell user data. E.g. see https://www.facebook.com/help/152637448140583 "Google has also played a leadership role in creating industry standards for transparency and data protection. More than a dozen privacy employees at Google spoke to WIRED about how they make sense of the paradox of their work, insisting that ther…

They absolutely sell the multi-feature profile of you from that data, and the data merchants absolutely tie it together then resell it to everyone. In turn, a bank can make or break your ability to buy a home with it. Fintechs helping make credit decisions get that from both, directly and indirectly, and even better when doing a bit of correlation for the bank. Microsoft and Amazon no real help, Apple even less. Note…

> They absolutely sell the multi-feature profile of you from that data

I'd like to learn more. Do you have a source for that?

Re: A privacy war is raging inside the W3C

#194

Post by mooreds »

One thing that was a surprise to me when I looked into this was that these changes to promote privacy (which seem pretty good to me) will also affect federated identity on the web.

Things like single sign-on are done with the same tech (cookies, redirects) that are used by advertisers, and in some cases are indistinguishable. This is a common use case, though of course small fry compared to the privacy vs ad tracking folks.

If you'd like to learn more about this aspect, here's a video from one of the Auth0 folks: https://identiverse.gallery.video/detail/videos/architecture...

(The video is from 2020. He gave an update at the same conference in 2021, but they haven't posted those videos yet.)

There's also a Federated ID Community Group at the W3C on the same issue: https://www.w3.org/community/fed-id/

Re: A privacy war is raging inside the W3C

#195

Post by deregulateMed »

kyralis wrote: post #116
samplatt wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An alternative to giving your money to one of the largest tax-dodgers on the planet is a $30 raspberry pi with "pi-hole" installed. Browsing on my phone at home with all those ad networks blocked okay... until you go outside your home network and get all the ads again. It's almost made my stop using my phone outside of my home network.

Apple's effective tax rate is actually higher than many of its peers, and higher than the sector on average. All multinationals need strong tax enforcement, but this isn't actually one where Apple is really any worse than others (and better than many). https://finbox.com/NASDAQGS:AAPL/explorer/effect_tax_rate

Apple has also banned more Apps to protect a Chinese dictatorship than many of it's peers.

Re: A privacy war is raging inside the W3C

#196

Post by eybbus »

breakfastduck wrote: post #173
fartcannon wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, good, but you traded one bad apple for another. Apple is in the process of locking down freedom. And while you might not be tracked by Google, your quality of life in a closed ecosystem is just as bad in other ways. How many people have to contend with iCloud endlessly begging for money because they took a few photos of their child? Isn't iCloud data backed up on Chinese servers? I'm pretty sure that means you'…

Where on earth are you pulling the 'begging for money' from? I've never seen that happen before. You are ultimately arguing that a business protecting my data, while also using it themselves to sell me their own products, is just as bad in other ways as a company taking my data and using it to manipulate election results, to sell to shady companies and to market the shit out of me.

When you get close to the 5gb limit they will hassle the fuck out of you by send you notifications and emails again and again. There is no "Please leave me alone, it is fine!" button/setting regarding that.

Re: A privacy war is raging inside the W3C

#197

Post by 3np »

marketingtech wrote: post #34

It's easy to mock the pettiness of all parties described here, and it's common for people on this forum to take absolutist stances with regards to privacy/advertising, but it's also important to recognize that these arguments will actually define the future of the internet for the average user. There are trillion dollar companies on both sides of the argument, and their eventual compromise will establish the defaults…

> Google's removal of third-party cookies from Chrome in the name of privacy was just blocked by EU competition regulators, because it would cripple competing advertising companies[1].

That's not what the article is saying. The referenced EC PR[0]: "Antitrust: Commission opens investigation into possible anticompetitive conduct by Google in the online advertising technology sector".

Nothing has been blocked. Restriction of third-party cookies is only one of 6 points that will be particularly looked at. This investigation may rightly so have launched at this or a later point regardless of third-party cookie restrictions in Chrome.

[0]: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_21_...

Re: A privacy war is raging inside the W3C

#198

Post by jensensbutton »

benhurmarcel wrote: post #154
o8r3oFTZPE wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Progress. What would be neat is to see how much data Apple is collecting about its customers after purchase. Why wouldnt we want to know this. Could Apple provide option to hide true email address, tell app do not track and give visibility into data being sniffed without also collecting vast amounts of user data itself. We cannot answer that question until we see the data they collect. I used to be of the mind that A…

A big difference is that Apple makes money by selling me devices. Google and Facebook make money by manipulating me into buying their customer's products. Incentives matter.

Apple's biggest engine for growth is services. Even they are clear about that.

Re: A privacy war is raging inside the W3C

#199

Post by deregulateMed »

lumost wrote: post #48

I used to be of the mind that ad tech et. al. weren’t really hurting anyone, and that the more extreme examples of privacy offenses were simple edge cases. That is until I switched to iOS and was given the option to hide my true email address, tell an app not to track me, and otherwise get visibility into just how much my data is getting sniffed for stupid reasons that have nothing to do with the service I’m using.

Careful. Your Apple data is being given away to Chinese dictatorships and the US government.

You don't actually know if your data is given away. We only learn after Apple is caught.

Re: A privacy war is raging inside the W3C

#200

Post by zajio1am »

tomc1985 wrote: post #20
quesera wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Perhaps you should evaluate why you let mere words affect you so much. Ironic. You just made it clear that you fully intended for these words to affect people strongly. The problem is that the second order effects are can vary and are out of your control. Vulgarity is often just a verbal tic for the inarticulate. If this doesn't apply in your case, then you and your message will be disadvantaged by association. It'…

> Vulgarity is often just a verbal tic for the inarticulate. If this doesn't apply in your case, then you and your message will be disadvantaged by association. This is incorrect. Vulgarity is the strongest possible choice when evaluating one's choice of words for emotional impact. I don't know what makes otherwise intelligent folk so damn afraid of them but that is not a part of the world I understand. Why would oth…

> There is an overall thread amongst "polite" circles of emotional suppression: don't show anger,

Because showing emotions to ones who are not interested in them often leads to net-negative outcomes?

If one person shows anger, people around feel threatened, and based on their nature respond with fear or anger. If people need to have a discussion to find some solution to the conflict, it is much better if they do not feel threatened.

Even if there is no conflict showing unwelcome emotions is like throwing garbage to neighbors' gardens. You would feel better, but then other need to deal with that.

Post reply on HN