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Jeff Bezos’ Dystopian Legacy Goes Far Beyond Amazon

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Re: Jeff Bezos’ Dystopian Legacy Goes Far Beyond Amazon

#51
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't the existence of Amazon's current practices a sign of the market not correcting anything ?

I suspect their logistics competitors are even worse.

I am curious about this. Are Amazon's practices uniquely brutal or is it just brutal at scale while nobody can name Joe's Logistics and thus if they pee in bottles, nobody knows?

Re: Jeff Bezos’ Dystopian Legacy Goes Far Beyond Amazon

#52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're in no danger of running out of people to employ. Social safety nets are too weak and economic conditions for the poor are too precarious that there are plenty of people willing to endure abusive conditions for a paycheck. The high turnover rate only ensures that they end up employing the most desperate and vulnerable.

Not if the alternative to working for Amazon is, well, death by starvation. People say communism falls apart once subjects stop having reasonably similar goals. Market economy is certainly more resistant to this, but is it infinitely more resistant? How far can we push inequality before that becomes an issue? Edit: That was meant as a response to the parent comment.

A radical thought: If i have the alternative to work for an dystopian megacorp or starve to death... why then not choose the third option: Go to jail while causing as much damage as possible?

(Disclaimer: Only a philosophical thought)

Re: Jeff Bezos’ Dystopian Legacy Goes Far Beyond Amazon

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find that most propaganda comes from unions as they increasingly seek a political relationship with workers rather than the economic relationship that workers want. On any union site - there are terms like "solidarity" with images of fists raised rather than actual data about improvement of wages or working conditions. This is why unions get trounced in votes by real workers, things like Prop 22 pass with easy marg…

How do you disentangle politics and economics here? Or, are you just claiming that unions are focusing on the wrong side of the equation?

I think the disentanglement is fairly simple.

If you want to improve conditions for workers, just say that you want to improve pay / $hr, increase break time by x min, and define xyz working conditions and have a detailed plan to support that. I've personally seen 0 unions pursue this approach... but have seen plenty advocate support for completely unrelated, purely political topics (e.g. voicing support for Palestine)

Re: Jeff Bezos’ Dystopian Legacy Goes Far Beyond Amazon

#54

Reading this, I'm so glad that in all of the EU it is illegal to fire someone purely based on a software decision. There's a minimum level of humanity that we should extend to everyone. Letting a known faulty AI decide if someone will have money for food tomorrow is way across the line. I'm not surprised that treating humans like cattle on their way to slaughter is hugely profitable. But I'm not sure we want to opera…

> Reading this, I'm so glad that in all of the EU it is illegal to fire someone purely based on a software decision.

Why do people treat working for a company as something different from selling any other services or goods? If there was a law that limited your ability to cancel a gym membership or going to a different supermarket, you would rightfully object — it's not a government's business to get involved in your voluntary business transactions. Why treat a company that hires workers differently?

Re: Jeff Bezos’ Dystopian Legacy Goes Far Beyond Amazon

#55
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Particularly countries like Poland and Hungary, they are very respectful of Article 1. Or Germany making so much business with China and Russia. Don't kid yourself thinking that the EU is a special place that is somewhat exempt of any of this.

Are you suggesting that the EU would be identical without Article 1 in place?

How people are treated in practice is a matter of power balance between the people/workers and the exploiters. What is written in a book of law matters very little. The rule of law is a cynical joke reserved to people who can pay million-dollar lawyers. For the rest of us, only raw force and humiliation by police/tribunals exist and the law is a farce.

Those in power who commit crimes will usually never spend a single day in prison, and when they exceptionally do they get built a special-purpose luxury cell which has nothing to do with prison. The rest of us get tortured and imprisoned because of fake police testimonies.

The situation is not as bad here in France as it is in Belarus/China/USA/Colombia, but it's certainly not as good as human rights declaration imply. If only human rights declarations were respected, then we would have a decent life and nobody would struggle for basic survival (food & housing). Unfortunately, we all know how it goes in the 5th richest nation in the world with 10% of the population living under the poverty line.

Re: Jeff Bezos’ Dystopian Legacy Goes Far Beyond Amazon

#57
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know that decades of anti-union propaganda is still in effect when individuals are convinced that working together with other individuals and pooling their resources to improve their working conditions is a bad thing. Of course when companies do it - through trade associations or lobbying - it's seen as natural and necessary for their survival.

I find that most propaganda comes from unions as they increasingly seek a political relationship with workers rather than the economic relationship that workers want. On any union site - there are terms like "solidarity" with images of fists raised rather than actual data about improvement of wages or working conditions. This is why unions get trounced in votes by real workers, things like Prop 22 pass with easy marg…

How are unions not inherently political? I also don't consider that a bad thing. If labour laws are going to be improved (in favor of the worker) you need to organise and negotiate and vote together and unions are an excellent way to do that. What exactly would a strictly "economic relationship" look like?

Re: Jeff Bezos’ Dystopian Legacy Goes Far Beyond Amazon

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Particularly countries like Poland and Hungary, they are very respectful of Article 1. Or Germany making so much business with China and Russia. Don't kid yourself thinking that the EU is a special place that is somewhat exempt of any of this.

There are certainly scales, it's not all uniform. But the EU is a big place and people are free to pick which country they live in. It's disingenuous to suggest it's all the same thing. The larger point of EU workers having more rights is, on average, very true. The US (and China and Russia) treats their workers very poorly by comparison.

> But the EU is a big place and people are free to pick which country they live in.

There are limits though.

You have a 3 months period where you can stay in another UE country then the national authorities can ask for your leaving. There are statuses that allows you to stay longer (work, studies, retirement, etc.) but those statuses have requirements and obligations. You can't take your tent, set it up somewhere in another country and declare you live there without some fiscal authorities coming for you at some point.

If I understand correctly you are free to move from and to any states (notwithstanding court orders) in the US .

Re: Jeff Bezos’ Dystopian Legacy Goes Far Beyond Amazon

#59

Reading this, I'm so glad that in all of the EU it is illegal to fire someone purely based on a software decision. There's a minimum level of humanity that we should extend to everyone. Letting a known faulty AI decide if someone will have money for food tomorrow is way across the line. I'm not surprised that treating humans like cattle on their way to slaughter is hugely profitable. But I'm not sure we want to opera…

> Reading this, I'm so glad that in all of the EU it is illegal to fire someone purely based on a software decision. Why do people treat working for a company as something different from selling any other services or goods? If there was a law that limited your ability to cancel a gym membership or going to a different supermarket, you would rightfully object — it's not a government's business to get involved in your…

Your limited ability to cancel a gym membership is an important part of any gym's business model, at least where I live: it bets on people's impulse decision (say, at the beginning of a new year) to get in shape, a desire which often tapers off after a few weeks or months. But if your gym contract has a minimum duration of, say, two years, whether you go there or not, you pay.

Re: Jeff Bezos’ Dystopian Legacy Goes Far Beyond Amazon

#60
post #3
post #2

This seems to be an advertorial for a union; it is based on a report by UNI Global Union, and also authored by someone from there.

You know that decades of anti-union propaganda is still in effect when individuals are convinced that working together with other individuals and pooling their resources to improve their working conditions is a bad thing. Of course when companies do it - through trade associations or lobbying - it's seen as natural and necessary for their survival.

I'd agree with you if joining the union is voluntary. But it isn't. It's determined by a vote, which is not the same thing as individual choice.

It's also not voluntary when there's a law that says one cannot work in a particular profession without joining the union.

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