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A privacy war is raging inside the W3C

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Re: A privacy war is raging inside the W3C

#141

Post by raxxorrax »

IX-103 wrote: post #56
pentagrama wrote: post #46

> One of Google's proposed standards — Federated Learning of Cohorts, or FLoC for short — would eliminate the ability for advertisers to track specific users' web behavior with cookies. No, Floc will not "eliminate the ability for advertisers to track specific users with cookies", the phase out of third party cookies on Chrome will do that, Google needs something to replace the current tracking method for his ad busi…

What do you call it when a company makes a change to its product in one market where it has large market share that drives its competitors in another market out if business? Or put another way, do you really think Google could get rid of third party cookies tomorrow and not get sued out existence? IANAL, but even I can see that making changes to Chrome that impact advertising is risky even if you ignore Google's own…

> could get rid of third party cookies tomorrow and not get sued out existence?

I don't think people abusing cookies have a standing as I see it. On what grounds, that their predatory business model is obsolete?

On the contrary, even if many web services are financed by ads, most customers of advertising just care about having the same possibilities to advertise their products. So a more healthy ad world would remain.

"Legal" advertising has eclipsed spam with its toxicity.

Re: A privacy war is raging inside the W3C

#143

Post by abrawill »

o8r3oFTZPE wrote: post #98
lumost wrote: post #48

I used to be of the mind that ad tech et. al. weren’t really hurting anyone, and that the more extreme examples of privacy offenses were simple edge cases. That is until I switched to iOS and was given the option to hide my true email address, tell an app not to track me, and otherwise get visibility into just how much my data is getting sniffed for stupid reasons that have nothing to do with the service I’m using.

Progress. What would be neat is to see how much data Apple is collecting about its customers after purchase. Why wouldnt we want to know this. Could Apple provide option to hide true email address, tell app do not track and give visibility into data being sniffed without also collecting vast amounts of user data itself. We cannot answer that question until we see the data they collect. I used to be of the mind that A…

“Get a copy of the data associated with your Apple ID account”

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208502

Re: A privacy war is raging inside the W3C

#144

Post by pitdicker »

IX-103 wrote: post #56
pentagrama wrote: post #46

> One of Google's proposed standards — Federated Learning of Cohorts, or FLoC for short — would eliminate the ability for advertisers to track specific users' web behavior with cookies. No, Floc will not "eliminate the ability for advertisers to track specific users with cookies", the phase out of third party cookies on Chrome will do that, Google needs something to replace the current tracking method for his ad busi…

What do you call it when a company makes a change to its product in one market where it has large market share that drives its competitors in another market out if business? Or put another way, do you really think Google could get rid of third party cookies tomorrow and not get sued out existence? IANAL, but even I can see that making changes to Chrome that impact advertising is risky even if you ignore Google's own…

> do you really think Google could get rid of third party cookies tomorrow and not get sued out existence?

Not disagreeing, but ad companies attempting to sue Google out of existence would be worth watching.

Re: A privacy war is raging inside the W3C

#145

Post by [deleted] »

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #124
top_post wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who just bought their first iPad last week, I wonder the exact same thing. A nice cuddle from Apple telling me how they're protecting me from evil, but you hold all the same shit about me. So now I just trust a _different_ for profit company? Until when? At one stage Google wasn't evil, now it's evil as fuck.

Yes, Apple is a for profit company. On the side they are collecting your data for themselves and blocking others from getting it. Their profits come from products and services. Google is a for profit company. On the side the offer products and services. Their profits come from selling your data to others. Yes, I personally trust one over the other in this case. Although I don’t know what “for profit” has to do with a…

[deleted]

Re: A privacy war is raging inside the W3C

#146

Post by jcrites »

petters wrote: post #139
SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, Apple is a for profit company. On the side they are collecting your data for themselves and blocking others from getting it. Their profits come from products and services. Google is a for profit company. On the side the offer products and services. Their profits come from selling your data to others. Yes, I personally trust one over the other in this case. Although I don’t know what “for profit” has to do with a…

> Google is a for profit company. On the side the offer products and services. Their profits come from selling your data to others. Google does not sell the data to others. (In fact, much of Google's profits would remain intact even without any user data. That is the great thing about search ads -- the user tells you exactly what they want. There is no need to guess)

No, but a history of what you’ve previously searched massively improves search results in just a few queries.

Re: A privacy war is raging inside the W3C

#147

Post by colordrops »

lumost wrote: post #48

I used to be of the mind that ad tech et. al. weren’t really hurting anyone, and that the more extreme examples of privacy offenses were simple edge cases. That is until I switched to iOS and was given the option to hide my true email address, tell an app not to track me, and otherwise get visibility into just how much my data is getting sniffed for stupid reasons that have nothing to do with the service I’m using.

Ive installed pihole at home and it reports hundreds of thousands of blocked requests a day. And this isn't counting everything the browser adblockers are stopping. We are a family of four, with really only the adults using the network an average amount. It's insane.

Re: A privacy war is raging inside the W3C

#148

Post by jokoon »

pentagrama wrote: post #46

> One of Google's proposed standards — Federated Learning of Cohorts, or FLoC for short — would eliminate the ability for advertisers to track specific users' web behavior with cookies. No, Floc will not "eliminate the ability for advertisers to track specific users with cookies", the phase out of third party cookies on Chrome will do that, Google needs something to replace the current tracking method for his ad busi…

> Federated Learning of Cohorts

What a scary name. Feels like the only thing GAFA use machine learning for, it's pretty worrying...

Re: A privacy war is raging inside the W3C

#149

Post by mola »

The so called small players abused their power, and the users had enough of being exploited. Now that the big players are mitigating this with the old American tradition of self regulation and kicking away the ladder, the same small players who abused our freedom to choose who to share our information with, are whining about freedom of choice.

Bah

Re: A privacy war is raging inside the W3C

#150

Post by jokoon »

It really seems that online privacy will trigger some sort of second internet bubble. There is soooo much money involved with online advertising, but it's not popular among consumers, so it seems that something is going to break in this business model.

One technical solution would be to decentralize internet even more, but it's pretty complex to do.

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