Some states push to ban “discrimination” against unvaccinated people • Hacker News Board

Re: Some states push to ban “discrimination” against unvaccinated people

#211

Post by Theory5 » Tue, Jul 13, 2021, 10:54 PM UTC

native_samples wrote: post #186

CogitoCogito wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have the right to simply ignore all the research going into this and be treated seriously. But I guess believe whatever you want if it makes you feel better.

Fortunately, being forced to believe everything scientists say is neither a law nor a responsibility. And just as well because they routinely contradict themselves or turn out to have been lying. See: the denunciation of the lab leak theory by Daszak and other virologists, which successfully suppressed this obvious common sense idea for a year. So in fact people do have that "right".

Lying? You mean changing their understanding of something new as more information becomes available? That's how science works they use the best info available, and change their understanding as more info becomes available.

Re: Some states push to ban “discrimination” against unvaccinated people

#212

Post by zimpenfish » Tue, Jul 13, 2021, 11:03 PM UTC

native_samples wrote: post #188

zimpenfish wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> how teenage boys get enlarged heart from it https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/06/17/1007447... " 7 million U.S. teens and preteens (ages 12 through 17) had received at least one dose of a COVID-19 vaccine" [...] "more than 300 cases of heart inflammation have been documented [...] mostly in teens and young adults between 12 and 39 years old" Assuming every single one of those 400 (rounding up) cases wa…

This is not the case. The US CDC is heavily backlogged and reports of vaccine injuries aren't being processed in a timely manner, so we don't actually know how many people are being injured by them. We only know lower bounds. If you look at VAERS then it's clear that this is by multiple orders of magnitude the most dangerous vaccine ever deployed. https://swprs.org/us-vaccine-deaths-increasing-rapidly/ "The latest we…

> raising the total of reported post-vaccination deaths to 9,048

Even if all those deaths were directly attributable to the vaccine (and that is unlikely), the US has vaccinated 159M people - that's 0.0057% or 99.9943% safe.

If you want to include all the illnesses as well to bring it up to 41,500 incidents, that's still only 0.026% or 99.974% safe.

For what is almost certainly the single biggest vaccination project in human history, with more scrutiny than any other mass medical intervention, those are pretty damn good numbers.

Re: Some states push to ban “discrimination” against unvaccinated people

#213

Post by methodiosmel » Wed, Jul 14, 2021, 3:25 AM UTC

adriancr wrote: post #30

AYBABTME wrote: post #25

Forgive me for asking a dumb question, and I mean no wrongthought in asking it: if I'm vaccinated, why should I care if others aren't? Does it change anything for my life from here? EDIT: thanks for the answers, exactly the info I needed to update my prior beliefs.

1. you can still catch things as vaccines are not 100% (some are 50-60% effective, mRNA are 90-95% so far) 2. It can mutate in people that catch it to avoid vaccine / cause other issues. Imagine if it started causing blindness... would you care then of being forced to take a 5-10% / 50% chance of catching it? 3. No chance of wiping it out without everyone vaccinated. 4. Some people can't get vaccinated or it wont wor…

Every point here applies to both vaccinated and unvaccinated. Point 3 ignores the role of natural immunity which has been shown to be just as effective as the vaccine. Ultimately, this has become a political issue. And like all political issues, people find all sorts of strawman arguments to demonize people who don't agree with them.

Re: Some states push to ban “discrimination” against unvaccinated people

#214

Post by codeflow2202 » Wed, Jul 14, 2021, 5:41 AM UTC

adriancr wrote: post #197

codeflow2202 wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The numbers are between 95% of Pfizer at his best and 50% of Sinovac. And we are not vaccinating to avoid a pandemic, we are doing it during the pandemic making the risk of it happening much higher. But the final point I was trying to pass is that isolation of the sick will slowly push the virus to evolve in more contagious but less risky variants. Undetected infections in the vaccinated might cause strains that evad…

> And we are not vaccinating to avoid a pandemic, we are doing it during the pandemic making the risk of it happening much higher. I bet you would like to go back in time and tell the people that vaccinated against polio that they were doing it wrong too? We are vaccinating to stop the pandemic. India is an example what happens without vaccines btw

You must be kidding me. This is proof that you pro covid mrna therapy are just mindless news consumers. Have you ever spent a second reading articles or watching the data about what you believe?

tot cases/1M pop -> usa 104525 india 22200 deaths/1M pop -> usa 1872 india 295

There is no single country in asia that did as bad as the USA in the deaths department. What's now your next extravagant excuse? That the usa has been overcounting its deaths to scare its people into covid mrna therpies?

Re: Some states push to ban “discrimination” against unvaccinated people

#215

Post by codeflow2202 » Wed, Jul 14, 2021, 5:58 AM UTC

CogitoCogito wrote: post #182

codeflow2202 wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What is this even saying? The virus is external to the body. The vaccines are external to the body as well. Study after study shows that the side-effects of the vaccine are lower than the issues caused by the disease. Saying that the virus is dangerous doesn't make the vaccine safe in the long term. You might be right, but you have no basis to suppose it's safe in the long run. You are just betting it because tv to…

> Saying that the virus is dangerous doesn't make the vaccine safe in the long term. You might be right, but you have no basis to suppose it's safe in the long run. You are just betting it because tv told you so. I'm not supposing it's safe in the long term. I'm supposing _nothing_ about the long term because we don't have that information. Maybe it is not safe in the long term. We'll find out some day I guess. Maybe…

1. Normal vaccines take 5 to 10 years to be approved. Covid mrna therapies have been rushed and they aren't even experimenting it correctly. The only data they are taking is what goes in the VAERS database, but if you even try to mention those numbers you get the usual answer that those numbers are meaningless. So tell me: if someone wants to know what the benefit/risk ratio of the therapy is, where should the numbers be found?

2. You cannot force people into taking experimental therapies even if you tricked half of the population into taking them.

Re: Some states push to ban “discrimination” against unvaccinated people

#216

Post by codeflow2202 » Wed, Jul 14, 2021, 6:01 AM UTC

adriancr wrote: post #197

codeflow2202 wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The numbers are between 95% of Pfizer at his best and 50% of Sinovac. And we are not vaccinating to avoid a pandemic, we are doing it during the pandemic making the risk of it happening much higher. But the final point I was trying to pass is that isolation of the sick will slowly push the virus to evolve in more contagious but less risky variants. Undetected infections in the vaccinated might cause strains that evad…

> And we are not vaccinating to avoid a pandemic, we are doing it during the pandemic making the risk of it happening much higher. I bet you would like to go back in time and tell the people that vaccinated against polio that they were doing it wrong too? We are vaccinating to stop the pandemic. India is an example what happens without vaccines btw

And I'm happy you mention polio because it's a great example of what can happen when we allow companies to rush their product without enough safety standards:

In April 1955, soon after mass polio vaccination began in the US, the Surgeon General began to receive reports of patients who contracted paralytic polio about a week after being vaccinated with Salk polio vaccine from the Cutter pharmaceutical company, with the paralysis limited to the limb the vaccine was injected into. The Cutter vaccine had been used in vaccinating 200,000 children in the western and midwestern United States.[76] Later investigations showed that the Cutter vaccine had caused 40,000 cases of polio, killing 10.[76] In response the Surgeon General pulled all polio vaccines made by Cutter Laboratories from the market, but not before 250 cases of paralytic illness had occurred. Wyeth polio vaccine was also reported to have paralyzed and killed several children. It was soon discovered that some lots of Salk polio vaccine made by Cutter and Wyeth had not been properly inactivated, allowing live poliovirus into more than 100,000 doses of vaccine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polio_vaccine

Re: Some states push to ban “discrimination” against unvaccinated people

#217

Post by codeflow2202 » Wed, Jul 14, 2021, 6:10 AM UTC

Theory5 wrote: post #211

native_samples wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fortunately, being forced to believe everything scientists say is neither a law nor a responsibility. And just as well because they routinely contradict themselves or turn out to have been lying. See: the denunciation of the lab leak theory by Daszak and other virologists, which successfully suppressed this obvious common sense idea for a year. So in fact people do have that "right".

Lying? You mean changing their understanding of something new as more information becomes available? That's how science works they use the best info available, and change their understanding as more info becomes available.

No new information came out to prove the lab leak hypothesis. They just lied about it to cover the financing of their gain of function research.

Re: Some states push to ban “discrimination” against unvaccinated people

#218

Post by codeflow2202 » Wed, Jul 14, 2021, 6:16 AM UTC

CogitoCogito wrote: post #179

underseacables wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is really a case of self righteous indignation. There are people who truly believe you must take the vaccine, and nothing will convince them otherwise, but more importantly, If you say no you won’t take the vaccine, they take it as a personal attack on their beliefs. In other words: how dare you say no to what I want you to do.

Honestly I don't take it as a personal attack. I just find people unnecessarily forgoing it to be selfish and stupid.

Not trusting private companies that proved many times to be putting their shareholders interests before the public good by forging false research, generating opioid epidemics and bribing politicians and committees is the opposite of being selfish and stupid.

On the contrary being this naive...

Re: Some states push to ban “discrimination” against unvaccinated people

#219

Post by dang » Wed, Jul 14, 2021, 7:34 AM UTC

LifeIsThermal wrote: post #5

Congratulations to America. You´re heading full speed towards a Nazi-style nation. Take your vaccine, you deserve it. Then afterwards, take a look at Pfizers criminal history of bribery and unethical behaviour: https://www.corpwatch.org/article/pfizer-admits-bribery-eigh... https://usareally.com/8550-pfizer-was-fined-nearly-usd-5-bil...

We've banned this account for using HN primarily for ideological battle. That's not allowed here, regardless of ideology, because it destroys what the site is supposed to be for. Please don't create accounts to break HN's rules with.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Some states push to ban “discrimination” against unvaccinated people

#220

Post by adriancr » Wed, Jul 14, 2021, 8:16 AM UTC

codeflow2202 wrote: post #216

adriancr wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And we are not vaccinating to avoid a pandemic, we are doing it during the pandemic making the risk of it happening much higher. I bet you would like to go back in time and tell the people that vaccinated against polio that they were doing it wrong too? We are vaccinating to stop the pandemic. India is an example what happens without vaccines btw

And I'm happy you mention polio because it's a great example of what can happen when we allow companies to rush their product without enough safety standards: In April 1955, soon after mass polio vaccination began in the US, the Surgeon General began to receive reports of patients who contracted paralytic polio about a week after being vaccinated with Salk polio vaccine from the Cutter pharmaceutical company, with th…

1. Same site:

> The inactivated polio vaccines are very safe

2. Do you have to worry about polio now?, no, why?

3. We have processes in place to verify vaccines, that's why you got news about janssen or whatever throwing away millions of doses due to contamination.