A privacy war is raging inside the W3C • Hacker News Board

Re: A privacy war is raging inside the W3C

#121

Post by axer99 » Wed, Jul 14, 2021, 4:43 AM UTC

tomc1985 wrote: post #5

I don't care how big this man's business is, Rosewell is a parasite bent on preserving the established order of datamining the shit out of everyone for his own personal profit. He is gumming up the works with pointless philosophical bloviating, using the anti-big-tech argument as a cudgel of convenience for bludgeoning a nascent privacy movement that has taken decades to get off the ground. I've sat in a large audien…

I joined just to upvote this comment i cAnt believe it is all the way at the bottom

Re: A privacy war is raging inside the W3C

#122

Post by evancox100 » Wed, Jul 14, 2021, 4:43 AM UTC

‘Perhaps it should have been a clear sign Do Not Track was doomed when, Tene wrote, the group tried to settle its dispute over the definition of tracking by seeing which side could hum loudest. "Addressing this method, one participant complained, 'There are billions of dollars at stake and the future of the Internet, and we're trying to decide if one third-party is covered or didn't hum louder!'" Tene wrote.’

I thought this had to have been a joke or some sort of analogy, but no they were literally humming.

Re: A privacy war is raging inside the W3C

#123

Post by edent » Wed, Jul 14, 2021, 4:45 AM UTC

evancox100 wrote: post #122

‘Perhaps it should have been a clear sign Do Not Track was doomed when, Tene wrote, the group tried to settle its dispute over the definition of tracking by seeing which side could hum loudest. "Addressing this method, one participant complained, 'There are billions of dollars at stake and the future of the Internet, and we're trying to decide if one third-party is covered or didn't hum louder!'" Tene wrote.’ I thoug…

https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-resnick-on-consensus-01.html

Re: A privacy war is raging inside the W3C

#124

Post by SV_BubbleTime » Wed, Jul 14, 2021, 4:46 AM UTC

top_post wrote: post #119

o8r3oFTZPE wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Progress. What would be neat is to see how much data Apple is collecting about its customers after purchase. Why wouldnt we want to know this. Could Apple provide option to hide true email address, tell app do not track and give visibility into data being sniffed without also collecting vast amounts of user data itself. We cannot answer that question until we see the data they collect. I used to be of the mind that A…

As someone who just bought their first iPad last week, I wonder the exact same thing. A nice cuddle from Apple telling me how they're protecting me from evil, but you hold all the same shit about me. So now I just trust a _different_ for profit company? Until when? At one stage Google wasn't evil, now it's evil as fuck.

Yes, Apple is a for profit company. On the side they are collecting your data for themselves and blocking others from getting it. Their profits come from products and services.

Google is a for profit company. On the side the offer products and services. Their profits come from selling your data to others.

Yes, I personally trust one over the other in this case. Although I don’t know what “for profit” has to do with anything. If it comes to Google or Government, geez, tough call that one.

Re: A privacy war is raging inside the W3C

#125

Post by fouc » Wed, Jul 14, 2021, 5:16 AM UTC

wbl wrote: post #79

marketingtech wrote: post #34

It's easy to mock the pettiness of all parties described here, and it's common for people on this forum to take absolutist stances with regards to privacy/advertising, but it's also important to recognize that these arguments will actually define the future of the internet for the average user. There are trillion dollar companies on both sides of the argument, and their eventual compromise will establish the defaults…

Users pick browsers and their OS. They don't pick the latest iteration of Bonsai Buddy.

For the average users there's only two choices, Windows or Mac, and Chrome-based or Firefox (or if they're on a Mac they get Safari as a 3rd choice).

Re: A privacy war is raging inside the W3C

#126

Post by wbl » Wed, Jul 14, 2021, 5:19 AM UTC

fouc wrote: post #125

wbl wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Users pick browsers and their OS. They don't pick the latest iteration of Bonsai Buddy.

For the average users there's only two choices, Windows or Mac, and Chrome-based or Firefox (or if they're on a Mac they get Safari as a 3rd choice).

And who is going to click the "let random companies I've never heard of know every site I visit online" button?

Re: A privacy war is raging inside the W3C

#127

Post by greggman3 » Wed, Jul 14, 2021, 5:36 AM UTC

lumost wrote: post #48

I used to be of the mind that ad tech et. al. weren’t really hurting anyone, and that the more extreme examples of privacy offenses were simple edge cases. That is until I switched to iOS and was given the option to hide my true email address, tell an app not to track me, and otherwise get visibility into just how much my data is getting sniffed for stupid reasons that have nothing to do with the service I’m using.

Where does this option to hide my email address appear? Twice I've tried to use Apple Pay and Apple said they'd share my email address if I continued. There was no option to opt out.

Re: A privacy war is raging inside the W3C

#128

Post by nielsbot » Wed, Jul 14, 2021, 5:44 AM UTC

greggman3 wrote: post #127

lumost wrote: post #48

I used to be of the mind that ad tech et. al. weren’t really hurting anyone, and that the more extreme examples of privacy offenses were simple edge cases. That is until I switched to iOS and was given the option to hide my true email address, tell an app not to track me, and otherwise get visibility into just how much my data is getting sniffed for stupid reasons that have nothing to do with the service I’m using.

Where does this option to hide my email address appear? Twice I've tried to use Apple Pay and Apple said they'd share my email address if I continued. There was no option to opt out.

At least one place: If you use "Sign-In With Apple", you'll get an option use a proxy e-mail address to register for the relevant service or website.

Related, but different: There's a new proxying web browsing service for Safari called "Safe Browsing": https://www.macrumors.com/2021/02/11/ios-14-5-beta-safe-brow...

(edit: clarity)

Re: A privacy war is raging inside the W3C

#129

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jul 14, 2021, 5:46 AM UTC

top_post wrote: post #119

o8r3oFTZPE wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Progress. What would be neat is to see how much data Apple is collecting about its customers after purchase. Why wouldnt we want to know this. Could Apple provide option to hide true email address, tell app do not track and give visibility into data being sniffed without also collecting vast amounts of user data itself. We cannot answer that question until we see the data they collect. I used to be of the mind that A…

As someone who just bought their first iPad last week, I wonder the exact same thing. A nice cuddle from Apple telling me how they're protecting me from evil, but you hold all the same shit about me. So now I just trust a _different_ for profit company? Until when? At one stage Google wasn't evil, now it's evil as fuck.

[deleted]

Re: A privacy war is raging inside the W3C

#130

Post by mikeiz404 » Wed, Jul 14, 2021, 6:07 AM UTC

fartcannon wrote: post #99

lumost wrote: post #48

I used to be of the mind that ad tech et. al. weren’t really hurting anyone, and that the more extreme examples of privacy offenses were simple edge cases. That is until I switched to iOS and was given the option to hide my true email address, tell an app not to track me, and otherwise get visibility into just how much my data is getting sniffed for stupid reasons that have nothing to do with the service I’m using.

Well, good, but you traded one bad apple for another. Apple is in the process of locking down freedom. And while you might not be tracked by Google, your quality of life in a closed ecosystem is just as bad in other ways. How many people have to contend with iCloud endlessly begging for money because they took a few photos of their child? Isn't iCloud data backed up on Chinese servers? I'm pretty sure that means you'…

> Isn't iCloud data backed up on Chinese servers? I'm pretty sure that means you're being spied on.

Are you thinking of Apple’s switch in 2018 to storing icloud data in China for users in China?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICloud

> In February 2018, Apple announced that iCloud users in China would have their data, including encryption data, on servers called “云上贵州” located in the country to comply with local regulations. This raised concerns from human rights activists who claim that it may be used to track dissidents.

From some quick reading it looks like apple “has six data centers in the United States, two in Denmark, and three in Asia” as well as use of the major cloud providers. I’m not sure if there are restrictions on where or how data is stored for people not located in China though. I am assuming so.