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Girls sweep at Google Science Fair

nytimes.com

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Re: Girls sweep at Google Science Fair

#61

Post by alsomike »

credo wrote: post #30

>>Dr. Cerf said. "This is just a reminder that women are fully capable of doing same or better quality work than men can." I hope those those who needed a reminder about the capabilities of girls or women see this news. However, (and I realize this will be controversial) imo this result doesn't contradict the general notion that girls (in mainstream American culture) are discouraged (by societal and cultural pressure…

But why is a reminder is needed? If you exclude computer science, women received the majority of bachelor's degrees in science since the late 80s. It was 60% in 2008 and probably even higher today.

Re: Girls sweep at Google Science Fair

#62

Post by jamesaguilar »

samfoo wrote: post #57
jamesaguilar wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How is a woman being more likely to be raped not equivalent to a man being more likely to be the victim of a violent crime? I don't know where I read this, but my understanding is that criminals are the people most likely to be victims of violent crime. For example, 50% of all murder victims are black men under the age of 25, and that is often associated with gang-related violence. I don't have sources for any of t…

I'll accept that victims of violent crime are also more likely to be the perpetrators. I just don't see how that matters: They're still part of the demographic of "men" and still contributing sociological disadvantage to the population (viz. "Men are stupid muscly brutes"). There are disadvantages (and advantages), sociologically speaking, for both genders. I'm not arguing that women are equally enabled at present (I…

> As discrimination trends towards zero -- which I believe it is -- it's hard not to feel frustrated that cheer leading (pun not intended) is acceptable on one side but not the other.

I guess our fundamental difference is how much discrimination we believe remains. You seem to think the disparity is small, justifying your frustration with female solidarity. I think the it is still very large.

Most areas where men are at a broad disadvantage are caused by male tendencies acting against themselves, not by other groups discriminating against men (e.g. the violent crime issue, which is not caused by discrimination but by male violent tendencies). Fundamentally, I don't care as much when people are hoist on their own petard as when they hoist others on the same.

In the areas where men are being discriminated against, the discrimination can be very strong (e.g. custody battles). But these contexts are far narrower than the contexts in which women face discrimination, which are more easily described by listing out the few places women are safe from it. I surely agree that we should work to end discrimination against males where it exists, but I also think as a society it makes sense to address problems in the order of their magnitude (or perhaps, with effort proportional to magnitude).

I agree that compared to historical norms we are doing quite well, but we are far from the point where solidarity is not an important asset to females.

Re: Girls sweep at Google Science Fair

#63

Post by bedris »

scythe wrote: post #3

>For the winning research Ms. Bose looked at a chemotherapy drug, cisplatin, that is commonly taken by women with ovarian cancer. The problem is that the cancer cells tend to grow resistant to cisplatin over time, and Ms. Bose set out to find a way to counteract that. Original study: https://sites.google.com/site/ampkandcisplatinresistance/ Doesn't seem to have been published yet, but presumably it will be.

Very nice work by a high school student! However, the hypothesis that AMPK can protect cells from cisplatin-induced cytotoxicity has been around for about four years:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1582-4934.2009....

http://www.jbc.org/content/283/7/3731.short

Re: Girls sweep at Google Science Fair

#64

Post by Cushman »

Helianthus wrote: post #59
Cushman wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not at all. I'm just pointing out that the corollary to "Solidarity has historically been acceptable in disadvantaged groups and frowned upon when exhibited by privileged groups" is that privileged groups have historically tended to perceive equality well before disadvantaged groups (and its true emergence). As a member of the privileged class, your perception that you are not privileged isn't taboo , it's just wrong…

My point, in fact, was that the conflict is _over_ the perception of privilege. Indeed, it has to be. The corollary to your statement: >privileged groups have historically tended to perceive equality well before disadvantaged groups (and its true emergence). ... is that disadvantaged groups tend to perceive equality after its true emergence. Please disentangle the current context (gender) from this discussion so we m…

First, since it wasn't clear, my use of "you" in that last bit was rhetorical. Wasn't intending to address anyone in particular, sorry about that.

But since you mention yourself, sure, let's talk that— What would you make of a heterosexual, cisgendered man saying that he doesn't really think people with non-standard gender identities are discriminated against?

Again, that's not a taboo thing to say. He's not speaking from bigotry, just ignorance. He has no reason to know or care whether discrimination is going on or not. That's privilege.

That's the hallmark of privilege. It's taken for granted. We're just "them". The wealthy, the white, the straight, the cisgendered, the male— we don't need identity, not in this country, not today. We don't need marches or flags or bumper stickers. Every day is our day.

And so of course we feel worried by a phrase like "Girl Power" or "Gay Pride" because, not knowing real discrimination, we think that's what it looks like. So I just stopped by to say, you know... No.

Re: Girls sweep at Google Science Fair

#65

Post by iloveyouocean »

meow wrote: post #13

The winning entry was for finding a way to overcome the resistance to a drug by cancer cells. I'm curious, how does a 17 year old get access to labs, chemicals, cell cultures required to conduct the study ? Is it common in US for students of this age to have access to such things ?

I dont know if she was in the same situation, but I went to a Math/Science Magnet High School and we were required to conduct a research project at the local university with a professor as an advisor. My school had relationships with many professors that were willing to mentor us.

Basically, each day we would leave school a couple hours early and head to the university lab where we would work. The projects were often a part of or a very small version of projects that the lab was already involved in. So at the end of our research we got to talk about the super amazing project we had worked on and generally looked like amazing geniuses, when in fact we were more or less tagging along and doing some semi-advanced lab tech work.

Re: Girls sweep at Google Science Fair

#66

Post by jnhnum1 »

jamesaguilar wrote: post #52
jnhnum1 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masculism#Masculist_concerns And after you've read that, please don't make the claim that there is no "real" discrimination against men.

I never made that claim. Maybe you are responding to the wrong commenter?

look, you said this:

"Most areas where men are at a broad disadvantage are caused by male tendencies acting against themselves, not by other groups discriminating against men (e.g. the violent crime issue, which is not caused by discrimination but by male violent tendencies). Fundamentally, I don't care as much when people are hoist on their own petard as when they hoist others on the same."

Tell me then, how is it an innocent man's fault when society assumes he is a pedophile when he is simply playing with his kids at the park? Or why is criminal sentencing so much more severe for men than for women who have committed an equivalent crime?

Re: Girls sweep at Google Science Fair

#67

Post by onemoreact »

jamesaguilar wrote: post #62
samfoo wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll accept that victims of violent crime are also more likely to be the perpetrators. I just don't see how that matters: They're still part of the demographic of "men" and still contributing sociological disadvantage to the population (viz. "Men are stupid muscly brutes"). There are disadvantages (and advantages), sociologically speaking, for both genders. I'm not arguing that women are equally enabled at present (I…

> As discrimination trends towards zero -- which I believe it is -- it's hard not to feel frustrated that cheer leading (pun not intended) is acceptable on one side but not the other. I guess our fundamental difference is how much discrimination we believe remains. You seem to think the disparity is small, justifying your frustration with female solidarity. I think the it is still very large. Most areas where men are…

I would argue that while discrimination is still significant in the US. IMO, the magnitude of net discrimination is fairly small. It’s not hard to find cases where men have an advantage. However, being a Man is a horrible disadvantage in child custody battles. In the eyes of the law when two drunken people have sex it’s often assumed that the man took advantage of the situation etc. Men receive less support in cases of domestic abuse and are more often killed. Infract only 10 year old boys are less likely than their female counterparts to die in any given year etc.

Biologically you can look at say men’s increased chance of baldness vs. PMS and think men have an advantage. But socially the cost / benefit analysis is harder to balance and harder to suggest that one side has a clear advantage because it comes down to how you weigh different parts of the equation.

Re: Girls sweep at Google Science Fair

#68

Post by Cushman »

benmccann wrote: post #58
Cushman wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not at all. I'm just pointing out that the corollary to "Solidarity has historically been acceptable in disadvantaged groups and frowned upon when exhibited by privileged groups" is that privileged groups have historically tended to perceive equality well before disadvantaged groups (and its true emergence). As a member of the privileged class, your perception that you are not privileged isn't taboo , it's just wrong…

Girls do better in school than boys. I'm curious why you'd suggest that boys are privileged in this environment.

First of all, there isn't enough evidence to say whether that's because of privilege or because women are naturally more intelligent than men.

Second, we can sure talk about specific environments. Talk to any white kid who grew up in a black neighborhood, they sure don't feel like they're better off for being white. And, yeah, that's bad. We should be doing something to help that kid. But his bad experience doesn't change the reality that when he leaves his neighborhood, when he goes to a job interview or to court or really just about, he is better off for being white.

So, sure. Girls are doing better than boys in school. The last entering freshmen class at my school was almost 2:1 female. Am I worried? Not really. Men still run the world.

We should be talking about how to help boys do better in school. We should also make sure we don't forget that women are an oppressed class, and that any solutions we try aren't contributing to the overall oppression of women.

Which probably means we should get women to do it.

Re: Girls sweep at Google Science Fair

#70

Post by jamesaguilar »

jnhnum1 wrote: post #66
jamesaguilar wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never made that claim. Maybe you are responding to the wrong commenter?

look, you said this: "Most areas where men are at a broad disadvantage are caused by male tendencies acting against themselves, not by other groups discriminating against men (e.g. the violent crime issue, which is not caused by discrimination but by male violent tendencies). Fundamentally, I don't care as much when people are hoist on their own petard as when they hoist others on the same." Tell me then, how is it a…

Most areas, not all.
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