Burden of post-Covid-19 syndrome and implications for healthcare planning • Hacker News Board

Re: Burden of post-Covid-19 syndrome and implications for healthcare planning

#161

Post by heavyset_go » Tue, Jul 13, 2021, 8:00 PM UTC

sebmellen wrote: post #71

lambdaba wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope this is taken the right way, but have you tried "vitamins" (broadly speaking)? Some I have seen with specific effects: Niacin, Black Seed Oil (Nigella Sativa), Magnesium megadoses, etc. etc. Don't dismiss these as "quack medicines", I've recovered from severe chronic illness thanks to some of these... I could expand if people ask, but really it's quite easy, especially for the HN crowd, to level-up rapidly on…

I am not sure what I think of your comment, but I think it at least deserves discussion. I have used said supplements before. In fact, I have a close friend who is very enamored with supplements and has about 50 different pill bottles in his medicine drawer. Out of curiosity, I once spent two weeks taking about 25 pills a day at his recommendation, and I'm afraid they did not do very much for me — at least that I cou…

> The only supplement/herbal medicine I've had success with is St. Johns Wort, but I've been strongly discouraged from using it by a psychiatrist who emphatically emphasized that an SSRI is a much safer and more controllable way to achieve the same effects if need be.

Yep. From Wikipedia[1]:

> On average, lead levels in women taking St. John's wort are elevated about 20%.

It's also a relatively dirty drug, with effects on typical monoamine and GABA reuptake, MAO-A and MAO-B inhibition and is an inhibitor or inducer at pretty much every relevant enzyme that breaks down common medications.

I wouldn't want to become dependent on something like that because the withdrawal syndrome could be pretty nasty compared to something relatively more selective and understood like an SSRI.

Even switching from SJW to something else might be tricky because of the enzyme induction.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypericum_perforatum#Antidepre...

Re: Burden of post-Covid-19 syndrome and implications for healthcare planning

#162

Post by christkv » Tue, Jul 13, 2021, 8:00 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #3

One of those cases here. Symptoms: suddenly out of energy, occasionally suddenly being unable to spell, even mild physical exercise leaves me floored (and I was pretty fit for my age prior to this). So, 17 months in: it's still not back to where it used to be but if you think of it in terms of trends instead of absolutes it is definitely still improving. The downs are less far down, the fog is lifting and the energy…

Seems vaccinating might help relieve long Covid https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/vaccines-long-covid might be worth talking to your doctor

Re: Burden of post-Covid-19 syndrome and implications for healthcare planning

#163

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jul 13, 2021, 8:00 PM UTC

sebmellen wrote: post #71

lambdaba wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope this is taken the right way, but have you tried "vitamins" (broadly speaking)? Some I have seen with specific effects: Niacin, Black Seed Oil (Nigella Sativa), Magnesium megadoses, etc. etc. Don't dismiss these as "quack medicines", I've recovered from severe chronic illness thanks to some of these... I could expand if people ask, but really it's quite easy, especially for the HN crowd, to level-up rapidly on…

I am not sure what I think of your comment, but I think it at least deserves discussion. I have used said supplements before. In fact, I have a close friend who is very enamored with supplements and has about 50 different pill bottles in his medicine drawer. Out of curiosity, I once spent two weeks taking about 25 pills a day at his recommendation, and I'm afraid they did not do very much for me — at least that I cou…

[deleted]

Re: Burden of post-Covid-19 syndrome and implications for healthcare planning

#164

Post by satysin » Tue, Jul 13, 2021, 8:01 PM UTC

timr wrote: post #145

dragontamer wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear these stories and it makes me wonder if I somehow caught SARS way back in the early 2000s. Because these long symptoms people talk about were exactly what I felt back then. There was some dramatic respiratory illness I got that took took months before I felt "like normal" again. I was a young teenager so I never felt like I needed to go to the emergency room. But the amount of time it took to recover back was…

From personal experience, the symptoms being described by all of the posts on this thread overlap substantially with depression and anxiety. It's notable that the GP went to the hospital and was diagnosed with a possible panic attack. Panic attacks frequently cause your heart to race, skip, etc. Depression causes "brain fog" and fatigue, body aches, etc. So far, ~all of the reports of "long covid" are anecdotal and p…

All valid points.

However as someone who was diagnosed with C-PTSD back in 2009 and spent 4 months in hospital for treatment of panic disorder, depression and anxiety this is different to what I experienced back then. It is a near constant discomfort in my chest.

I am wondering if it is perhaps costochondritis or something similar to it? Perhaps costochondritis and anxiety that is making the whole thing worse? I wish I had answers. Hopefully I will next week.

Re: Burden of post-Covid-19 syndrome and implications for healthcare planning

#165

Post by fragmede » Tue, Jul 13, 2021, 8:01 PM UTC

sebmellen wrote: post #71

lambdaba wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope this is taken the right way, but have you tried "vitamins" (broadly speaking)? Some I have seen with specific effects: Niacin, Black Seed Oil (Nigella Sativa), Magnesium megadoses, etc. etc. Don't dismiss these as "quack medicines", I've recovered from severe chronic illness thanks to some of these... I could expand if people ask, but really it's quite easy, especially for the HN crowd, to level-up rapidly on…

I am not sure what I think of your comment, but I think it at least deserves discussion. I have used said supplements before. In fact, I have a close friend who is very enamored with supplements and has about 50 different pill bottles in his medicine drawer. Out of curiosity, I once spent two weeks taking about 25 pills a day at his recommendation, and I'm afraid they did not do very much for me — at least that I cou…

I mean, if you're basically fine, then the supplements, which have had studies run, aren't really going to do much for you unless you're really in tune with your body. For extreme cases of long covid, however, the right set of vitamin supplements are life saving. (I'm not exaggerating. eg https://www.cambridgeindependent.co.uk/news/long-covid-patie... )

There are absolutely scammers selling trash (there's someone selling stem cell injections as a cure) and fuck them. But don't ignore the very real problems that patients are experiencing, and that they're helped by simple remedies that aren't yet proven by science. Science will catch up, but people are suffering dying in the meanwhile.

Re: Burden of post-Covid-19 syndrome and implications for healthcare planning

#166

Post by disabled » Tue, Jul 13, 2021, 8:04 PM UTC

satysin wrote: post #101

jacquesm wrote: post #3

One of those cases here. Symptoms: suddenly out of energy, occasionally suddenly being unable to spell, even mild physical exercise leaves me floored (and I was pretty fit for my age prior to this). So, 17 months in: it's still not back to where it used to be but if you think of it in terms of trends instead of absolutes it is definitely still improving. The downs are less far down, the fog is lifting and the energy…

Ever since having COVID back in March 2020 I haven't been the same. I still have regular fatigue but my biggest issue is chest pains. For the past few months I have had worsening discomfort/pain in my chest. It was so bad a few weeks ago I ended up going to A&E thinking I was having a heart attack. They did an ECG, sonogram of my heart, chest x-rays, bloods, etc. My heart was fine so not a heart attack. They put it d…

You may want to take a look at this: https://www.ohsu.edu/sites/default/files/2021-04/Long-COVID-...

It's basically a cheat sheet to long hauler's clinical presentations, along with the diagnoses that they get. It's all classified and stuff.

I am pretty sure that I got COVID-19 in March 2020, and it messed me up severely.

But, your heart problems could be dysautonomia. I had dysautonomia prior to getting COVID-19, though, and I have a rare form of it.

Anyways, according to that cheat sheet that I referred to, the palpitations could be:

"Arrhythmia related to myocardial, pericardial disease or PE, dysautonomia with POTS"

The chest pain:

"Chest wall pain, GI source, pericarditis, myocarditis, established CAD, thromboembolic disease, etc."

This is the ultimate site on fatigue. Unfortunately it is in Norwegian, so you have to use Google Translate for the website (and the PDF documents--which are great): https://www.kognitiv.no/psykisk-helse/ulike-lidelser/utmatte...

Re: Burden of post-Covid-19 syndrome and implications for healthcare planning

#167

Post by CarelessExpert » Tue, Jul 13, 2021, 8:06 PM UTC

spookthesunset wrote: post #149

_ykl9 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No idea why you're getting downvoted Speculation: conflation of his reasonable and factual statement with the ostensibly similar far-right talking point that the cure (social distancing) is worse than the disease.

> far-right talking point Expressing skepticism surrounding the efficiency of social distancing, masks, "non essential business" and all these lockdowns is not a "far right" talking point. None of our response was in any playbook for this level of threat. We threw out all our pandemic planning in a fit on hysteria and panic. To this day we cannot say for certain that lockdowns did anything at all, let alone enough to…

> Expressing skepticism surrounding the efficiency of social distancing, masks, "non essential business" and all these lockdowns is not a "far right" talking point.

You're absolutely right. This kind of misinformation isn't limited to the far right.

> To this day we cannot say for certain that lockdowns did anything at all,

LOL, what? This is a truly astonishingly statement.

Literally every place that instituted lockdowns saw a drop in COVID transmission, and every place that reduced or eliminated lockdowns saw an increase.

This isn't even controversial. It's an application of the basic germ theory of infectious transmission.

You can't seriously be making this claim in good faith, can you?

Re: Burden of post-Covid-19 syndrome and implications for healthcare planning

#168

Post by lambdaba » Tue, Jul 13, 2021, 8:07 PM UTC

ericd wrote: post #136

lambdaba wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of the recommendations are vitamins and minerals, that are common deficiencies (magnesium is a notorious one, because of soil depletion etc.). It's reasonable to suspect that recovery from an illness finds one in a nutrient-depleted state.

Ah yeah, I was thinking more about the plant extracts. But your body is probably decent at filtering out the vitamins and minerals it doesn’t need (the water soluble ones, at least, be careful with fat soluble ones like vitamin D).

Obviously both vitamins and plant extracts need to be treated with care, after having done thorough research. Thankfully there is plenty of information available, and as I've said the HN crowd should be especially well equipped for this.

Re: Burden of post-Covid-19 syndrome and implications for healthcare planning

#169

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jul 13, 2021, 8:07 PM UTC

spookthesunset wrote: post #138

perlgeek wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With a "normal" viral cough, the infection itself lasts that long. With Long Covid, the viral load is gone from your system, and symptoms still persist Previously, the general public wasn't very interested in chronic, unspecific symptoms that people have or had (google Chronic Fatigue Syndrome; it's a collection of people feeling fatigue, have concentration issues etc. similar to Long Covid, many long before COVID-19…

> With Covid, there are too many to ignore, so such things are now getting more attention. Too many to ignore or just that we decided to put a huge magnifying glass on it? We have our log levels turned up to "ultra verbose" and are collecting every single scrap of data. If we looked at other respiratory viruses with the same amount of logging... I would bet we'd see just as much, if not more, crap as we are with covi…

[deleted]

Re: Burden of post-Covid-19 syndrome and implications for healthcare planning

#170

Post by reader_mode » Tue, Jul 13, 2021, 8:08 PM UTC

It's self reported symptoms and the sample contains a massive amount of hospitalization cases compared to general pop. Couldn't they secure funding to do a more meaningful study where they actually examined random samples of population post COVID and looked for abnormalities in lung function or cognitive abilities, etc. ?

Considering the stakes this seems like an important question to answer correctly and gathering data about potential long term complication sounds valuable.