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Delta Variant

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Re: Delta Variant

#321

Post by didjathinkmess »

lamontcg wrote: post #300
bamboozled wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for writing this, I'm still on the fence about taking it for this reason, it was rushed and the longer term implications are certainly still not fully understood. Edit: Again with the downvotes, it's a fact . No one has had this vaccine for 3,5 or 10 years. The long term effects cannot be fully understood until such time has lapsed and studies have been completed. Here, the creator of mRNA vaccines discusses t…

> it was rushed and the longer term implications are certainly still not fully understood. It was not rushed. We have 250 years of experience with vaccinations and when their side effects happen. And longer with viruses and their autoimmune effects. After a day or three the vaccine is completely gone from your system, all that remains is the immune effects, the possible side effects are all autoimmune conditions. Tho…

>Those autoimmune conditions will either manifest in 90 days or they will not.

Source? For the long term autoimmune effects of these vaccines, that is.

No? Well that's because that information is unavailable because it hasn't been studied long term hence it can't be known.

There are no long term studies. Hence the reluctance of many to get vaccinated. So that quoted statement can probably be banished to the world of pseudoscience for now. Or post your sources from subjects unrelated to the COVID vaccine that make you think that.

Re: Delta Variant

#322

Post by spookthesunset »

timr wrote: post #183
bamboozled wrote: post #165

As a reader of HN for several years now, it blows my mind how polarized we all are on this issue. Something smells here, you're not allowed to question anything without being down voted to oblivion, one way or another. Why?

Covid discussion has become equivalent to politics. Most people have strong opinions on the matter, these opinions usually correlate strongly to their favorite political party's stance, and few people have the experience or knowledge to evaluate scientific information rationally. It's a recipe for uninformed debate. On top of that, in the US, the previous president was so politically polarizing that literally any sta…

> Covid discussion has become equivalent to politics

It isn't equivalent, it is politics. In the end I suspect the last 15+ months will be a story of:

10% disease mitigation, 20% intellectual error, 30% media fear mongering and 40% politics.

Re: Delta Variant

#323

Post by bamboozled »

petre wrote: post #295
bamboozled wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for writing this, I'm still on the fence about taking it for this reason, it was rushed and the longer term implications are certainly still not fully understood. Edit: Again with the downvotes, it's a fact . No one has had this vaccine for 3,5 or 10 years. The long term effects cannot be fully understood until such time has lapsed and studies have been completed. Here, the creator of mRNA vaccines discusses t…

You are worried about the long term effects of a mRNA vaccine that has passed clinical trials and was already tested on >10M people, but not about viral RNA spreading in your community? I guess we'll se the effects of the vaccines in 3…10y. Until then I'm getting a third shot if I must, because I'd really want to be there maybe having this conversation in the next decade.

You can be worried about both, it doesn't have to be one or the other.

I think Covid19 escaped from a lab and is probably engineered (to some degree), so I imagine it's also insanely messed up stuff.

Re: Delta Variant

#324

Post by enragedcacti »

effie wrote: post #207
enragedcacti wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you’re vaccinated, you’re mostly safe, especially with mRNA vaccines. Keep your guard up for now, avoid events that might become super-spreaders, but you don’t need to worry much more than that. If you’re not vaccinated though, this is a much more dangerous time than March 2020. The transmission rate is higher than it used to be, and if you catch Delta, you’re much more likely to die—or get Long COVID. You should…

> only hang out with other vaccinated people This is irrational. 1) According to available data, if you got vaccinated or pulled through COVID, you are well protected against severe COVID illness in future (cell immunity lasts for years). 2) You can get infected with variants both from vaccinated and unvaccinated people. You can't hide from unvaccinated people forever.

  only hang out with other vaccinated people
I assumed this was a typo given that it was in the section addressing unvaccinated people. I believe he means to say that if you are unvaccinated your risk is lowered by only spending time with vaccinated people since the data shows that vaccinated people are considerably more protected from delta infection (although less so than earlier strains).

That said, I wish more papers and studies would talk about rates for those who pulled through a previous strain of covid and how bad it was when discussing immunities rather than focusing only on vaxxed vs unvaxxed.

Re: Delta Variant

#325

Post by basementcat »

blindmute wrote: post #231
murgindrag wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotally, my experience is that the main reason is distrust of authority. It's usually warranted distrust too. Authorities aren't trustworthy. To answer your question: (1) Most vaccines don't have 10+ year trials. A year is not even the fastest; the flu on 1957-1958 has a vaccine developed in 4 months. (2) Most medical trials are slower since everything is done sequentially, since there is no rush. You can do an a…

I am unvaccinated and probably will remain so for this particular vaccination. I don't truly believe that the risk of the vaccine outweighs the risk of the virus to me. It's more that I weigh the risk of covid at around zero, and the risk of vaccine at a question mark. I cannot trust the institutions pushing this vaccine at all. At worst, I trust the opposite of what they say about anything politicized. But let's jus…

It might not be a big deal if you get COVID but it would suck to be the immunocompromised individual (or a friend/family relation to the individual) who might get COVID from you.

Re: Delta Variant

#326

Post by OzyM »

ElectronCharge wrote: post #307
OzyM wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You cited the CDC, but now that the figure you used has been cleared up, you no longer like the CDC as a source? > Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem. A review of available clinical information, including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records, has not established a causal link to COVID-19 vaccines . Howe…

[flagged]

Yes, of the 177 million doses of vaccine given in the U.S., there have been ~1000 reports of heart issues. Amounts to ~0.000006% of people who receive the vaccine (in the U.S.) having inflammation of the heart after. [0] As far as I can tell, no heart-related deaths have been evidentially linked to any COVID-19 vaccine.

Meanwhile, COVID-19 itself also causes heart problems with higher severity and on a much larger scale. In children, this usually is multisystem inflammatory syndrome that can cause severe damage and death. In adults, severe heart attacks are a known (albeit rare) side-effect of COVID-19. [1] There is also early, but not conclusive, evidence that the coronavirus can cause longer-term heart damage in some cases, such as scarring.

You're welcome to make your own medical decisions such as whether you'd like to get vaccinated, but all of the data I'm aware of suggests that by any measure, vaccination is probably a good choice for the vast majority of people (barring those with allergies to the vaccine, or other known issues).

[0] https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/my...

[1] https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseas...

Re: Delta Variant

#327

Post by elsonrodriguez »

throwaway316943 wrote: post #270
specialist wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Remember the hand washing phase of the pandemic? Guidelines need to be enumerated, like product releases. So much angst would be avoided. When there's a disagreement, the parties (operating in good faith) could go meta and compare guideline versions. Which would help resolve differences. "Oh, you're following guidelines USA-1.4. I see. FYI, last week our governor issued USA-NY-1.5, clarifying protocols for open air…

Even easier would be simply admitting they were wrong about the previous guidelines and explaining why, you know like grown ups.

"Stop Flip Flopping"

Politicians have to appeal to people who crave stability above all else, and trying to do otherwise will just get them replaced by someone who knows how to appeal to stability.

Re: Delta Variant

#328

Post by zpeti »

franciscop wrote: post #72

The article purposefully conflates numbers to tell a narrative. I am talking only about EU, and at that southern EU which is where I've been following the numbers closely. Delta variant has been acting for up to 1 month in some regions, and as described in the article yes cases are up very quickly. However, the article says: > COVID deaths [...] And if you think Europe or the US will be spared This is not reflected a…

Another issue which this article ignores, and so does the fear mongering clickbait media, is how many asymptotic people we are testing now vs 6 months ago or a year ago.

It’s way more. The UK especially is testing like crazy. But that means a lot more cases appear in the statistics than before, even if the R rate is only marginally higher.

We simply don’t know what the actual r rate of all the different variants are because we had different test velocities as well. And this is crucial in whether we should be hysterical about Delta or not.

Also, wtf happened to cases in India? It’s not exactly all that catastrophic any more. In fact by the time the media had their 2 week India is dying narrative, cases declined. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/india/

Re: Delta Variant

#329

Post by murgindrag »

blindmute wrote: post #231
murgindrag wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotally, my experience is that the main reason is distrust of authority. It's usually warranted distrust too. Authorities aren't trustworthy. To answer your question: (1) Most vaccines don't have 10+ year trials. A year is not even the fastest; the flu on 1957-1958 has a vaccine developed in 4 months. (2) Most medical trials are slower since everything is done sequentially, since there is no rush. You can do an a…

I am unvaccinated and probably will remain so for this particular vaccination. I don't truly believe that the risk of the vaccine outweighs the risk of the virus to me. It's more that I weigh the risk of covid at around zero, and the risk of vaccine at a question mark. I cannot trust the institutions pushing this vaccine at all. At worst, I trust the opposite of what they say about anything politicized. But let's jus…

I empathize with most of what you wrote, but there are two errors:

"I also know what to expect from a respiratory virus, because I've had those a number of times."

No one whom I know who has had COVID describes it like any normal respiratory virus, and it attacks multiple systems. I'm terrified of brain damage, and before-and-after MRIs shows brain damage in >10% of people who contract COVID19.

"If I get covid, darn that sucks but people get sick and that's life"

And if you kill a loved one by sharing COVID19? Or give them brain fog? That's not something I could live with.

The deeper argument, though, is about herd immunity. If we don't stop the spread, really bad things happen.

I'll mention: Do you use proper masks? N95 and proper nanofiber masks are widely available, and appear to do more to stop the spread than the vaccine. They're also risk-free.

Re: Delta Variant

#330

Post by pier25 »

sgt101 wrote: post #233
pier25 wrote: post #41

These new variants were to be expected as the vaccines seem to be accelerating these mutations. My understanding is that the COVID vaccines train the body to recognize the outer protein layer of the virus. In consequence when that changes (because of mutations and natural selection) the body becomes less effective at recognizing the virus. Geert Vanden Bossche[1] has been warning about this for months now. He says it…

I don't understand VDBossche's assertions - he seems to say that there isn't a single case of population level benefit from vaccination campaigns. But we have seen massive benefit from mass vaccination against Polio, Smallpox, Measles, Mumps, Diptheria and many more. This is on a par with arguing that gravity doesn't make things fall down. It's worth noting that Delta appears to have emerged in India when and where t…

Honestly I have no idea, but a new variant called Lambda originated in Peru which is a relatively small country with only 32M.
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