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Building a vision of life without work (2015)

livingafi.com

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Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#101

Post by AutumnCurtain »

quietbritishjim wrote: post #36
SavantIdiot wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This follow up is way more compelling because it deals with the reality. I'm jealous of the authors communication skills and their partner's: there are some very hard statements in there about feeling worthless and falling behind because of no job. I wonder of those words were spoken calmly, or shouted through tears. Here are their discussions: https://livingafi.com/post-fire-relationship-disconnect/ TL;DR: He has to…

> [article author, to wife] ... I thought that what you wanted was to live a life of freedom, with me. We’d talked about this. > [article author's wife] Not exactly. I wanted to have kids with you and work and be like everyone else. Live a normal life. I’m tired of being weird. And I don’t want to go back to work if you aren’t. That’s weird too. You wouldn’t even be a stay-at-home-dad. You’d be nothing. > [article au…

It is ultimately his perspective but I agree, he was one layer of abstraction away from calling her a "normie". She had goals and ambitions he didn't share; that doesn't mean she "doesn't get it", it means they're different people.

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#102

Post by lupire »

low_common wrote: post #81
zoba wrote: post #67

I was 2nd employee at a unicorn startup and have been on a work-hiatus for almost a year. Now, I live amongst Amish people in the country. My biggest insight has been a mindset change. Previously my underlying approach to life looked like: "I will do X which will enable me to do Y so that I can finally do Z." I now approach my days with "What will make me happy?" This is an experiment I'm performing. A structured lif…

Are you rich/have no kids? Because most people probably cannot relate to the life you're living right now.

I don't think the Amish are particularly rich or childless?

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#103

Post by lupire »

codesternews wrote: post #88
zoba wrote: post #67

I was 2nd employee at a unicorn startup and have been on a work-hiatus for almost a year. Now, I live amongst Amish people in the country. My biggest insight has been a mindset change. Previously my underlying approach to life looked like: "I will do X which will enable me to do Y so that I can finally do Z." I now approach my days with "What will make me happy?" This is an experiment I'm performing. A structured lif…

What are you doing on HN?

Reading and commenting, apparently.

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#104

Post by joshuaissac »

kevinwang wrote: post #5

This person also posted an amazing, unvarnished update recently (about 5-6 years later): https://livingafi.com/2021/03/17/the-2021-early-retirement-u...

Discussion of that post from 3 months ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26543527

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#105

Post by PragmaticPulp »

SavantIdiot wrote: post #39

I'm 52 and have 2.5MM in an IRA (200k cash) and debt of just a $200k mortgage (and this is weaksauce compared to my peers who all became VPs or C*Os). And the idea of trying to live off an IRA that is currently stocks/bonds/ETFs scares the bejeebers out of me. I think it is more about the personality than the money: do you have the risk-tolerance like this guy to say "fuck it, it will all work out," or are you like m…

> do you have the risk-tolerance like this guy to say "fuck it, it will all work out,"

He posted a follow-up blog post years later. Sadly, it didn't work out for him. He had to return to work.

I agree with your general sentiment: Some of these extreme early retirement stories are really pushing the limits reasonable amounts of money to retire with. I don't think it's reasonable for people in their 30s or even 20s to look at their finances and assume their spending will stay constant for the next 6 decades of their lives.

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#106

Post by ryandrake »

quietbritishjim wrote: post #36
SavantIdiot wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This follow up is way more compelling because it deals with the reality. I'm jealous of the authors communication skills and their partner's: there are some very hard statements in there about feeling worthless and falling behind because of no job. I wonder of those words were spoken calmly, or shouted through tears. Here are their discussions: https://livingafi.com/post-fire-relationship-disconnect/ TL;DR: He has to…

> [article author, to wife] ... I thought that what you wanted was to live a life of freedom, with me. We’d talked about this. > [article author's wife] Not exactly. I wanted to have kids with you and work and be like everyone else. Live a normal life. I’m tired of being weird. And I don’t want to go back to work if you aren’t. That’s weird too. You wouldn’t even be a stay-at-home-dad. You’d be nothing. > [article au…

What it tells me is that there are two really important and serious things you need to consciously commit to in order to be compatible with this lifestyle. 1. Set aside that urge to keep up with the Joneses, and 2. Stop deriving life meaning from employment. These habits can be deeply ingrained in someone's personality, like an addiction in remission, and may rear their heads even if you agree to deliberately try to fight it. I don't think this is genetic. It comes from a lifetime of social conditioning, from watching your parents and friends do it. I'd actually like to read more about the strategies people have successfully used to deprogram themselves and help their loved ones also move past these things, helping them make the jump to FIRE (or regular-retirement).

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#107

Post by k__ »

I did a sabbatical in 2014 and I had plenty of stuff to do.

So much, in fact, that I couldn't imagine going back to work ever again.

I couldn't imagine living polyamorous with more than two partners when working 40h a week. Let alone having some hobbies on the side...

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#108

Post by dayvid »

neogodless wrote: post #61
dayvid wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That post was incredible. Really rare and refreshing to find that level of honesty on the internet nowadays (even when pseudonymous), sadly. Reflected a lot of thoughts I had about potential downsides to FIRE.

The downsides like having different visions for your life from your spouse, or discovering you have a chronic health issue were not due to FIRE. In fact, FIRE gave the author tools to decide what to do about those issues. The result may not be what the author wanted (divorce, a new relationship, seeking additional income to support that new relationship) but none of the issues were caused by FIRE.

I'm not knocking FIRE. I like the idea of it and especially the author's comment about a lot people just following what people around them are doing instead of living life by their own standards.

The downsides I thought of were the inherit randomness of life (catastrophic incidents, children, relationships, health). I'm fairly certain the people working at my company past potential retirement are due to them having family and wanting the insurance perks and hedge for any potential uncertainties children and older age can throw at you.

I really liked that the author elaborated on the relationship dynamic, because I think that's something that could be a common issue in FIRE relationships with a middle-class or higher partner. What if they still want to work or do more? Can your lifestyle accomodate that?

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#109

Post by SCNP »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #7
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #3

This is one of the biggest missing pieces in internet FIRE discussions. So much of the FIRE discourse is about not working that many don’t realize that they’re going to be extremely bored with 16 hours to fill every day. Worse, their friends are all busy with their lives. It’s actually a common failure point of FIRE post-mittens that didn’t work out. Especially with couples, where it’s more likely that at least one p…

Got to admit that watching people struggle with the question of what to do without a job to fill their time is just completely wild to me. It is difficult for me to imagine someone who has so little they want to do outside of work that they can't easily find ways to fill up the 8+ hours a day their job takes from them. I have a list of things I'd like to do a mile long that I know I'll never actually find time to do…

To add to this, since the work I do at my job aligns very closely to my hobbies, I find that work saps my interest in putting time into said hobbies. If I were able to spend the entirety of my mental capacity on things I _want_ to do, I might do more. Who is to say. As a counterpoint, work can offer opportunities to work with technologies or concepts you might not think of or be able to afford while working on a personal project.

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#110

Post by mgh2 »

zoba wrote: post #67

I was 2nd employee at a unicorn startup and have been on a work-hiatus for almost a year. Now, I live amongst Amish people in the country. My biggest insight has been a mindset change. Previously my underlying approach to life looked like: "I will do X which will enable me to do Y so that I can finally do Z." I now approach my days with "What will make me happy?" This is an experiment I'm performing. A structured lif…

We were built to work, to have purpose. Having meaningful work is key - this is what the FIRE movement misunderstood.

By meaningful, I mean to someone other your yourself or your extended self (family). Our purpose is to serve others, not ourselves.

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