Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Study finds 83% of software developers feel burnout

usehaystack.io

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 308 posts

Re: Study finds 83% of software developers feel burnout

#51

Post by soco »

luffapi wrote: post #14

A large part of the problem is that management doesn’t realize that writing software is a creative endeavor. You don’t get more creative output by working people harder, you do it by giving them more freedom. I may create more value with one spark of insight than months if trudging along, yet almost all management is meant to optimize the trudge and not the spark. This also adds to the very low quality of most code (…

Managers (MBA and the likes) will optimize only what can the tested and optimized. Can anyone define spark? We can all agree it's needed, but no regular management practice looks at it because everybody knows it can't be optimized. So this is what we are left with: optimizing butt time. Yes, there's also the discipline of engineering managers, but they seem to always be on the losing side when financial discussions time comes.

Re: Study finds 83% of software developers feel burnout

#52

Post by antris »

codyswann wrote: post #39
antris wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupational_burnout Burnout is not just a subjective term. It is a highly researched syndrome and can be tested for.

If that's the definition they're using, put it in the paper. Otherwise, it's just like asking someone if they feel "hot" at work. And if it can be tested for, why not do a study that tests for it? Otherwise, it's like asking people if they feel like they have cancer.

Studies aren't there to cater to your ignorance. Burnout is well defined, and generally quite well understood by even the general public, this is not news. You switched from "soft science is all subjective nonsense" to "I don't like how it's written". You don't have to like it.

Re: Study finds 83% of software developers feel burnout

#53

Post by MattGaiser »

rantwasp wrote: post #44
MattGaiser wrote: post #36

How much of the workload is just the dev shortage/insufficient staffing? I am currently the only dev on my team because of departures (there should be 4). Now, it is not really all that in production yet so it hasn't required late nights or waking up at odd hours, but it does linger in my mind that this could be a big issue if it grew a lot and my team didn't. I would hate to support it alone. A friend of mine is mis…

using interns as this is unacceptable. is there a dev shortage or is there an expectation that you can hire people for cheap and work them to death?

In economic terms, there are no shortages. In practical terms though, it means that there are a bunch of projects out there that aren't viable without heavily working people and employers are incentivized to extract as much as possible from people.

Re: Study finds 83% of software developers feel burnout

#54

Post by an_opabinia »

jeffail wrote: post #38

Anecdotally I'd say professions that often double up as a hobby and don't have a significant material or energy cost to exercise will be more susceptible to burn out. If you're _really_ into software engineering and struggle to pace yourself then burn out will often stop you sooner than finger fatigue or your computing costs. I'm not saying workplace pressure etc isn't a factor, but those are also similar factors in…

It’s an interesting idea, but I don’t know. Lawyers and doctors also say the workload burns them out. Some doctors have to do 24 hour shifts which are more than 3x physically demanding than working 1 8 hour day.

I understand what you mean by hobby though. It’s toxic to discount people feeling shitty. But the biggest complainers I know - maybe the shittiest people - get into programming or the guilded professions to make money.

Re: Study finds 83% of software developers feel burnout

#55

Post by pixl97 »

dfxm12 wrote: post #32
briefcomment wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is maintenance the cause of burnout then?

In my experience (and I think also in the spirit of the analogy), it's not just maintenance. It's expecting to maintain everything you've ever done while also simultaneously being expected to keep producing new work at the same rate (and then being expected to maintain that). It's that your work load seems to only increase. As the study found with regards to the causes of burnout, increased workload cited as the main…

Heh, it's like having a kid that is your total dependent for 18 years. And then having another, and another, and another. And unlike real children, they don't help take care of each other.

Re: Study finds 83% of software developers feel burnout

#56

Post by throwawayswede »

This is such a great example of bullshit studies.

Yeah I'm gonna go on a limb and say this is a marketing campaign. It's an insult to science to call this a "study".

From the pdf:

> The fieldwork of this study was carried out at remarkable speed, from the 23rd to 24th of June 2021

Data was collected in 1 day. Is this a joke? No it's not!

> The population sampled included Software Engineers aged 18+ living in the United Kingdom. In total we surveyed 258 such people

Survation, the market research agency who did the actual work, interviewed 258 people only, I don't see any definition or criteria on what that means, years of experience, field, cultural-background, or any of the many other very important aspects that anyone would wonder about.

I really don't understand how they can do a half-assed data survey on 258 people only, and then have the gall to claim "83% of developers".

What's really sad about this is that there is indeed an increased workload I've heard people say that they've experienced, caused by the side-effects of the covid-response most governments took, from working from home for extended periods to mental health issues.

This kind of click-bait bullshit marketing campaigns is pretty harmful to the very real issue of burnout because it muddles the ground and dilutes the issue.

Re: Study finds 83% of software developers feel burnout

#57

Post by karaterobot »

briefcomment wrote: post #5
titzer wrote: post #2

If you were a professional painter and every couple of months, someone snuck into your art studio, threw out all your brushes, paint, canvas, and then dumped a huge load of requests for you to "fix" your old paintings, I'm pretty sure you'd get burned out pretty quick.

Is maintenance the cause of burnout then?

Somebody said that the cause of burnout is working hard and then not seeing results.

Some common ways that happens in software development are working for months on a feature that gets cut (or undercut) at the last minute, or trying to demonstrate your ability for some role and not being recognized for it, or even just putting your heart and soul into a company that is circling the drain.

If those experiences happen over and over, without some intervening successes to recharge you, you get burned out.

Re: Study finds 83% of software developers feel burnout

#58

Post by playpause »

antris wrote: post #18
varelaz wrote: post #16

Developers are getting too spoiled. Did someone do the same research for teachers for example.

This myth of "spoiled developers" definitely feeds into the problem. People feel like they cannot complain about their work conditions because they have nice toys and benefits at the work place.

As a long time developer, I think we are pretty good at complaining about our work conditions, and are spoiled in many ways. We also have some very valid complaints about the bullshit we have to deal with, interfering micromanagers making us less productive and less happy, etc. All these things can be true at once. You don’t need to dismiss any of them as myths.
Post reply on HN