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Some states push to ban “discrimination” against unvaccinated people

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Re: Some states push to ban “discrimination” against unvaccinated people

#171

Post by codeflow2202 »

CogitoCogito wrote: post #158
codeflow2202 wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is ridiculous. The body as anything in nature is always struggling to stay in balance. To maintain this balance it had millions of years of evolution to optimize strategies that counteract external and internals effects. But in general the chances are much higher for a neutral/bad result in case of an external intervention for which our body was never put in contact before (not even in past generations as in the…

I honestly don't understand your post. > But in general the chances are much higher for a neutral/bad result in case of an external intervention for which our body was never put in contact before (not even in past generations as in the case of lipid nano particles). What is this even saying? The virus is external to the body. The vaccines are external to the body as well. Study after study shows that the side-effects…

> What is this even saying? The virus is external to the body. The vaccines are external to the body as well. Study after study shows that the side-effects of the vaccine are lower than the issues caused by the disease.

Saying that the virus is dangerous doesn't make the vaccine safe in the long term. You might be right, but you have no basis to suppose it's safe in the long run. You are just betting it because tv told you so.

> It's been proven non-poisonous hundreds of millions of times already.

You are talking about possible future unknown effects. No it hasn't been proven at all. They aren't even looking for possible long term damage.

Anyway they downplay it in the leaflet but its there: "The COVID-19 vaccine has gone through the same clinical trials and safety checks as all other licensed vaccines, however the vaccine is new and long-term side effect information is limited."

https://www.hse.ie/eng/services/news/newsfeatures/covid19-up...

Re: Some states push to ban “discrimination” against unvaccinated people

#172

Post by forcry »

CogitoCogito wrote: post #148
forcry wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27817926

What point are you trying to make by linking that post? It's not even about the same subject. There may very well be not very much information supporting covid passes for restaurants, but what does that have to do with covid vaccinations? There is an enormous amount of information there. E.g. here is a point you made that doesn't even remotely apply here: > If you do an experiment that very few people in the world is…

You don't have to respect me. But you have to respect the fact that trust in "science" is fundamentally different from trust in "scientists".

Re: Some states push to ban “discrimination” against unvaccinated people

#173

Post by johnisgood »

codeflow2202 wrote: post #171
CogitoCogito wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I honestly don't understand your post. > But in general the chances are much higher for a neutral/bad result in case of an external intervention for which our body was never put in contact before (not even in past generations as in the case of lipid nano particles). What is this even saying? The virus is external to the body. The vaccines are external to the body as well. Study after study shows that the side-effects…

> What is this even saying? The virus is external to the body. The vaccines are external to the body as well. Study after study shows that the side-effects of the vaccine are lower than the issues caused by the disease. Saying that the virus is dangerous doesn't make the vaccine safe in the long term. You might be right, but you have no basis to suppose it's safe in the long run. You are just betting it because tv to…

> Anyway they downplay it in the leaflet but its there

The bullshit you have to sign before receiving the vaccine here is not downplaying anything here at least, but not that it stops people from signing it; they might as well just sign their rights to health care away altogether.

We literally have to sign our rights away for compensation in case something happens to us due to the vaccine, ANY time in the future. If you have complications from the vaccine, you cannot sue anyone, and you cannot get compensation from anyone.

They tell you straight that it is a new vaccine and we have no information with regarding to its safety, especially long-term, and that you are receiving the vaccine at your own risk, and that you are on your own if something bad happens.

How sketchy is that? More than 5.6 million people signed it. If needed, I will dig it up and translate the entire thing, but I think it is obvious what it is about. :)

Re: Some states push to ban “discrimination” against unvaccinated people

#174

Post by Pyramus »

forcry wrote: post #78
Pyramus wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He´s the only one so far that has made correct predictions in this pandemic. How likely do you think is it, that a vast field of virologists, immunologists, molecular biologists, medical doctors and scientists in general are all wrong but this one person is right?

He is not alone in making that connection regarding vaccinating in the middle of a pandemic As you can see here. I am not sure what the exact time is, but they also suggest this possibility. It appears to me that this is common knowledge.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-RuvUkcyJI

That is exactly my point - it is common knowledge that there are risks.

By saying "everybody is wrong but I found this one guy who is right" parent is well down the road towards conspiracy theory.

Re: Some states push to ban “discrimination” against unvaccinated people

#175

Post by craig1f »

adriancr wrote: post #30
AYBABTME wrote: post #25

Forgive me for asking a dumb question, and I mean no wrongthought in asking it: if I'm vaccinated, why should I care if others aren't? Does it change anything for my life from here? EDIT: thanks for the answers, exactly the info I needed to update my prior beliefs.

1. you can still catch things as vaccines are not 100% (some are 50-60% effective, mRNA are 90-95% so far) 2. It can mutate in people that catch it to avoid vaccine / cause other issues. Imagine if it started causing blindness... would you care then of being forced to take a 5-10% / 50% chance of catching it? 3. No chance of wiping it out without everyone vaccinated. 4. Some people can't get vaccinated or it wont wor…

5. When unvaccinated people end up in the hospital, hospitals get stressed to their limits. This results in fewer beds for me and my family if we end up in a hospital for a different reason. This is also causing job burnout for nurses and doctors.

Re: Some states push to ban “discrimination” against unvaccinated people

#176

Post by adriancr »

codeflow2202 wrote: post #169
adriancr wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there are billions of people that will never have access to the vaccines False. Pfizer alone will manufacture 2.5 billion doses this year, 3 billion next year. Considering EU/US already at 50-60% vacicnated, there are a lot of doses for the rest of the world. Moderna will likely have similar production. The other simpler ones even more. > If it is true that only unvaccinated people generates new dangerous versions…

You are surprisingly optimistic. We have been a few months in the vaccination campaign and we are already in need of boosters to patch new strains. Even if the numbers you mention are true, you still have to deliver a product with extremely complex logistics in highly unreachable places (vaccinating westerners with our infrastructure is way easier than doing the same in Africa), hope that they will really deliver tho…

> Our data show that anti-disease vaccines that do not prevent transmission can create conditions that promote the emergence of pathogen strains that cause more severe disease in unvaccinated hosts.

The journal you reference studies Marek's disease in chicken. The vaccine does not prevent transmission (which farmers found good enough). As such, all vaccinated chicken can get the virus but dont get sick and still transmit it.

That is irrlevant since, its a study on chicken, with a vaccine that wouldn't be approved for humans. Also all vaccines stop transmission with 90-95% or less for poorer vaccines (you are 95% less likely to catch it)

All the study shows is the need to vaccinate everyone and extinguish the virus same as polio before it evolves.

As for numbers source: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-03-09/biontech-...

As for difficulty distributing vaccines in Africa. Where there's a need people will figure out a way.

Re: Some states push to ban “discrimination” against unvaccinated people

#177

Post by forcry »

skinkestek wrote: post #170
Nursie wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not blindly trusting governments, media and big pharma however doesn't sound crazy to me. > As for media: how anyone here can trust anyone of them blindly is beyond me. I think this is a problem in our current society, rightly or wrongly a lot of people don't trust government or many mainstream information resources, but unfortunately instead of becoming rationally sceptic, a lot go over to blatant misinformation a…

> I think this is a problem in our current society, rightly or wrongly a lot of people don't trust government or many mainstream information resources, but unfortunately instead of becoming rationally sceptic, a lot go over to blatant misinformation and conspiracy. Yep. As I have tried to explain one of my friends: even if you assume every official is prone to lying something can be read from their words and actions.…

> When I see doctors who have 5-7 more years of studies in the field than me lining up for the vaccine that is a useful signal.

Let me share some similar signals that I see.

Let us talk about the VAERS database. I wonder why is it not made in such a way that it can collect high quality data? Like for example, make strict mandates to the healthcare people to document each and every AEFI that they notice.

But right now, the covid vaccines are not even in the list of vaccines whos events are reportable under law [1].

And [2] where they choose not to enforce data collections in name of promoting vaccinations.

So when the authorities opt not to collect data, it is a big red signal for me.

>Well in that case COVID-19 should be eradicated in Cuba, Iran and Russia now as none of those suffers the same stranglehold from Big Pharma.

Well I guess anywhere in the world, the authorities will be taking a big risk by going against W.H.O. Not sure, just something that could be the case..Can you show some citation to show Ivermectin was being used in these places and found to be of no use?

[1] https://vaers.hhs.gov/docs/VAERS_Table_of_Reportable_Events_...

[2] https://www.osha.gov/coronavirus/faqs#worker

Re: Some states push to ban “discrimination” against unvaccinated people

#178

Post by codeflow2202 »

adriancr wrote: post #176
codeflow2202 wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are surprisingly optimistic. We have been a few months in the vaccination campaign and we are already in need of boosters to patch new strains. Even if the numbers you mention are true, you still have to deliver a product with extremely complex logistics in highly unreachable places (vaccinating westerners with our infrastructure is way easier than doing the same in Africa), hope that they will really deliver tho…

> Our data show that anti-disease vaccines that do not prevent transmission can create conditions that promote the emergence of pathogen strains that cause more severe disease in unvaccinated hosts. The journal you reference studies Marek's disease in chicken. The vaccine does not prevent transmission (which farmers found good enough). As such, all vaccinated chicken can get the virus but dont get sick and still tran…

The fact that it's about chickens is irrelevant. This is about how viruses evolve when confronted with an immune system.

But you are correct that the lower the transmission rate from vaccinated people, the lower the risk of enhanced viruses.

But your 95% is debatable. The number goes drastically down depending on which vaccine you use, the new strains, and probably time.

My point is that the myth that unvaccinated people are the part of the population creating enhanced variants is false. Before the vaccination propaganda started it was known to everyone that isolating the sick tends to forces the virus to evolve in less dangerous strains.

Re: Some states push to ban “discrimination” against unvaccinated people

#179

Post by CogitoCogito »

underseacables wrote: post #161
forcry wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You don't have the right to simply ignore all the research going into this and be treated seriously. Replace "research" with "stuff a bunch of people you believe say", and the situation will become much more clear.

I think this is really a case of self righteous indignation. There are people who truly believe you must take the vaccine, and nothing will convince them otherwise, but more importantly, If you say no you won’t take the vaccine, they take it as a personal attack on their beliefs. In other words: how dare you say no to what I want you to do.

Honestly I don't take it as a personal attack. I just find people unnecessarily forgoing it to be selfish and stupid.

Re: Some states push to ban “discrimination” against unvaccinated people

#180

Post by adriancr »

craig1f wrote: post #175
adriancr wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. you can still catch things as vaccines are not 100% (some are 50-60% effective, mRNA are 90-95% so far) 2. It can mutate in people that catch it to avoid vaccine / cause other issues. Imagine if it started causing blindness... would you care then of being forced to take a 5-10% / 50% chance of catching it? 3. No chance of wiping it out without everyone vaccinated. 4. Some people can't get vaccinated or it wont wor…

5. When unvaccinated people end up in the hospital, hospitals get stressed to their limits. This results in fewer beds for me and my family if we end up in a hospital for a different reason. This is also causing job burnout for nurses and doctors.

You're right... I know of cancer cases where treatment was delayed for a while due to no availability unfortunately...
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