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Some states push to ban “discrimination” against unvaccinated people

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Re: Some states push to ban “discrimination” against unvaccinated people

#41

Post by khazhoux »

stefan_ wrote: post #19
raxxorrax wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is ridiculous really. I have been vaccinated with Moderna, which didn't even bring anything else to the market as far as I know. Listening to these people wanting to nudge others I wish I didn't get vaccinated. I think the damage Covid can cause is significant, but this is an experimental treatment. To my disappointment I didn't get magnetic, but doctors claiming there cannot be any unforseen dangers are lying to…

There have been hundreds of millions of vaccinations. What unforseen danger is there at this point? Be precise.

I don't believe there is a risk, but I'll defend the commenter: Unforeseen by definition means yet-unknown. How can one be precise?

Re: Some states push to ban “discrimination” against unvaccinated people

#42

Post by Nursie »

AYBABTME wrote: post #37
stefan_ wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There have been hundreds of millions of vaccinations. What unforseen danger is there at this point? Be precise.

What if there's unpredictable long term consequences? Like, turns out XYZ compounds gives cancer but that only become detectable after 18+ months. Although I admit I don't know if regular trials would uncover these either. I have no dog in this fight, I'm just providing a possible answer.

All of the components have been used before, these things aren't that new.

mRNA tech itself has been in development since the 80s, and for immunisation since about 2012. It's gone from the body within a few hours AFAICT. If you're that worried, go for the J&J or AZ vaccines, which are more 'traditional' and don't use mRNA.

Re: Some states push to ban “discrimination” against unvaccinated people

#43

Post by hrjfkfnf »

stefan_ wrote: post #19
raxxorrax wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is ridiculous really. I have been vaccinated with Moderna, which didn't even bring anything else to the market as far as I know. Listening to these people wanting to nudge others I wish I didn't get vaccinated. I think the damage Covid can cause is significant, but this is an experimental treatment. To my disappointment I didn't get magnetic, but doctors claiming there cannot be any unforseen dangers are lying to…

There have been hundreds of millions of vaccinations. What unforseen danger is there at this point? Be precise.

Some toxins take years, or decades to manifest themselves.

As an example, see lead, asbestos, mercury, or other heavy metals poisonings.

As Taleb says, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

As a specific point regarding these vaccines, we don't really know the long term effect of the lipid nano particles used in them. And we do know that it took 20 years to create them, because all previous lipid nano particles tried were proven to be highly toxic.

Re: Some states push to ban “discrimination” against unvaccinated people

#44

Post by CogitoCogito »

AYBABTME wrote: post #37
stefan_ wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There have been hundreds of millions of vaccinations. What unforseen danger is there at this point? Be precise.

What if there's unpredictable long term consequences? Like, turns out XYZ compounds gives cancer but that only become detectable after 18+ months. Although I admit I don't know if regular trials would uncover these either. I have no dog in this fight, I'm just providing a possible answer.

> What if there's unpredictable long term consequences?

That same question can be asked about covid so I don't understand how this single point brings anything to the discussion. We don't know the future. We don't know the future vaccine effects just like we don't know the future for covid effects.

We do definitely know that the effects of covid (even if you discount them by the fact that not everyone gets covid) are much worse than the vaccines. Everything points to the vaccines being much better than the disease.

Re: Some states push to ban “discrimination” against unvaccinated people

#45

Post by dtech »

LifeIsThermal wrote: post #11
raxxorrax wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is ridiculous really. I have been vaccinated with Moderna, which didn't even bring anything else to the market as far as I know. Listening to these people wanting to nudge others I wish I didn't get vaccinated. I think the damage Covid can cause is significant, but this is an experimental treatment. To my disappointment I didn't get magnetic, but doctors claiming there cannot be any unforseen dangers are lying to…

I´m less worried by vaccine safety than the vaccine strategy. You don´t normally vaccinate in an ongoing pandemic, usually you vaccinate when a virus is not in circulation. By vaccinating in this way, in an already infected population, you add selection pressure that creates an advantage for more contagious vaccine-resistant strains. This is the real danger in my opinion, but of course side effects of this new vaccin…

What's the alternative? Let the pandemic rage on for a few more years, wait till everyone has been affected or dead, and then vaccinate?

Oh wait, that will have the exact same problem, because as more and more people get natural immunity the same selective pressure arises causing new variants. See cold or flu viruses.

Congratulations, you've just caused much more suffering, death and economic damage and achieved nothing by waiting with vaccinations. Good job!

Re: Some states push to ban “discrimination” against unvaccinated people

#46

Post by Pyramus »

LifeIsThermal wrote: post #20
rich_sasha wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the UK, most people getting into hospitals now with severe Covid are young and unvaccinated. So while yes, the risks are much lower for young people, there are enough of them getting seriously ill.

Not much different from how influenza also gets some young people in hospitals then? We don´t vaccinate young people against influenza either, because the risk is so low. Let the children build up natural immunity, they´ll benefit from that in the future. Vaccinate people at risk, elderly and sick people. Just like we always do. Changing strategy from what´s already known to work, when the stakes are this high, is ve…

> We don´t vaccinate young people against influenza either, because the risk is so low.

We do. You might want to read up on why the seasonal influenza is a seasonal influenza and how it is different from a new, pandemic strain. There is a reason children are ill all the time - their immune systems are naive with respect to (almost) all strains of influenza. That's also the reason the 1918 flu killed predominantly young people - it is conjectured that their immune systems hadn't seen the new strain yet, while older people had.

Re: Some states push to ban “discrimination” against unvaccinated people

#47

Post by [deleted] »

khazhoux wrote: post #41
stefan_ wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There have been hundreds of millions of vaccinations. What unforseen danger is there at this point? Be precise.

I don't believe there is a risk, but I'll defend the commenter: Unforeseen by definition means yet-unknown. How can one be precise?

[deleted]

Re: Some states push to ban “discrimination” against unvaccinated people

#48

Post by jollybean »

aaron695 wrote: post #36

Anyone who remembers the discrimination against people with HIV (which still exists) is obviously cautious here. WHO is against discrimination based on covid vaccine passports. I suspect because they deal with disease based discrimination all the time. So you can be one of those people screaming at school meetings to kick out the kid with HIV in the 80's or take a step back. Perhaps it is ok to discriminate, but it's…

The discrimination against people with AIDS was based on irrational fear of getting AIDS by touching or interacting with them.

The discrimination against non-vaxxed people is based on the fact they are non-vaxxed and potential sources of risk.

It's a little bit like discriminating against those who don't have a drivers license who want to drive a car i.e. reasonable grounds for discriminating.

Obviously, it's more complicated than that. British Coloumbia (at least at some point) refused to enact discrimination policies for public serves over fears of inequity in vaccine access for example.

But the nominal issues is legit: non-vaxxed people at least today, represent some kind of risk factor.

Re: Some states push to ban “discrimination” against unvaccinated people

#49

Post by AYBABTME »

Nursie wrote: post #42
AYBABTME wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if there's unpredictable long term consequences? Like, turns out XYZ compounds gives cancer but that only become detectable after 18+ months. Although I admit I don't know if regular trials would uncover these either. I have no dog in this fight, I'm just providing a possible answer.

All of the components have been used before, these things aren't that new. mRNA tech itself has been in development since the 80s, and for immunisation since about 2012. It's gone from the body within a few hours AFAICT. If you're that worried, go for the J&J or AZ vaccines, which are more 'traditional' and don't use mRNA.

I'm not worried at all, I'm eager to be able to get a mRNA vaccine, but no vaccine at all is available to my age group where I live. I envy y'all.

Re: Some states push to ban “discrimination” against unvaccinated people

#50

Post by Nursie »

irish_guy_uk wrote: post #8

As a healthy, 30 something year old living in the UK the only reason I took the vaccine (both doses) was in the civic duty which said that once a certain percentage of the population was done, then restrictions could end. Now it looks like that's kinda happening in a week but even so the BMA and others are calling this irresponsible and there's an unsaid expectation of further lockdowns. I'm really starting to wonder…

> there's an unsaid expectation of further lockdowns

Because the disease is still running rampant, unfortunately, as we still have a way to go with the vacciantion effort

> I'm really starting to wonder why I bothered with the vax.

Why? You've cut down on the chances of getting the disease, you've cut down the chances you'll be a vector that gets other people infected, and you've cut down the chance you'll be the source of a new variant.

And at what cost? Very little.

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