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Some states push to ban “discrimination” against unvaccinated people

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Re: Some states push to ban “discrimination” against unvaccinated people

#31

Post by basch »

LifeIsThermal wrote: post #20
rich_sasha wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the UK, most people getting into hospitals now with severe Covid are young and unvaccinated. So while yes, the risks are much lower for young people, there are enough of them getting seriously ill.

Not much different from how influenza also gets some young people in hospitals then? We don´t vaccinate young people against influenza either, because the risk is so low. Let the children build up natural immunity, they´ll benefit from that in the future. Vaccinate people at risk, elderly and sick people. Just like we always do. Changing strategy from what´s already known to work, when the stakes are this high, is ve…

The population has built in immunity to influenza. There's a combination of health risk and spread potential, and if you continue to limit the benefit to only one of the two, it's easy to distort the conversation in a way that benefits your point of view.

>Let the children build up natural immunity

If a vaccine is safer, why? Framing a covid infection as "natural" is pretty twisted. It's not like primates have been developing immunity to this strain of bat poop for millennia. Pretending a natural infection is better because its natural is reckless. I bet, and I could be wrong, most people who had chicken pox wish they had the vaccine instead.

Re: Some states push to ban “discrimination” against unvaccinated people

#32

Post by CJefferson »

AYBABTME wrote: post #25

Forgive me for asking a dumb question, and I mean no wrongthought in asking it: if I'm vaccinated, why should I care if others aren't? Does it change anything for my life from here? EDIT: thanks for the answers, exactly the info I needed to update my prior beliefs.

Firstly, vaccines aren't perfect -- they significantly improve your chances of not catching COVID, and having less serious problems. It is better if (almost) everyone gets the vaccine, which will reduce cases of COVID.

Secondly, I'm getting the COVID vaccine not because they believe that there is a high risk of getting serious COVID myself, but to help others -- some at-risk people can't get the vaccine at all, and immune-suppresed people are still at significant risk post-vaccine (although still lower risk than without).

Re: Some states push to ban “discrimination” against unvaccinated people

#33

Post by Nursie »

AYBABTME wrote: post #25

Forgive me for asking a dumb question, and I mean no wrongthought in asking it: if I'm vaccinated, why should I care if others aren't? Does it change anything for my life from here? EDIT: thanks for the answers, exactly the info I needed to update my prior beliefs.

Your vaccine is not 100% effective, so others in the community are still a potential threat.

If you are immunocompromised, or possibly allergic to the vaccines, then you may not be able to have one.

And as mentioned by the other poster, if the virus is still running rampant in the unvaccinated population, new variants may appear which skirt immunity.

Vaccination is a group effort, and while it's great that I am largely protected now, it makes a difference that society at large gets vaccinated too.

Re: Some states push to ban “discrimination” against unvaccinated people

#34

Post by raxxorrax »

stefan_ wrote: post #19
raxxorrax wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is ridiculous really. I have been vaccinated with Moderna, which didn't even bring anything else to the market as far as I know. Listening to these people wanting to nudge others I wish I didn't get vaccinated. I think the damage Covid can cause is significant, but this is an experimental treatment. To my disappointment I didn't get magnetic, but doctors claiming there cannot be any unforseen dangers are lying to…

There have been hundreds of millions of vaccinations. What unforseen danger is there at this point? Be precise.

Be precise about something that is unknowable? We take a risk with this plain and simple. It might be small, but so is risk from the disease itself.

Re: Some states push to ban “discrimination” against unvaccinated people

#35

Post by raxxorrax »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #9

Is seems like a new trend for right wing ideas to be expressed in what would traditionally be considered left-wing concepts and language. Does that mean they lost the culture war or is it just a new phase?

What are you referring to? Classifying some of the talking points as left and right is pretty reductive.

When I was just a little longer it was an undeniably truth for me that left wing positions are plainly just smarter. I still think that way, but I also believe mental illness is far more common in people that declare themselves left wing.

Re: Some states push to ban “discrimination” against unvaccinated people

#36

Post by aaron695 »

Anyone who remembers the discrimination against people with HIV (which still exists) is obviously cautious here.

WHO is against discrimination based on covid vaccine passports. I suspect because they deal with disease based discrimination all the time.

So you can be one of those people screaming at school meetings to kick out the kid with HIV in the 80's or take a step back.

Perhaps it is ok to discriminate, but it's not simple. This also should not involve heath care workers, as the article mentions these laws exclude them.

I would be surprised if the next best step to controlling this is to start discrimination.

Re: Some states push to ban “discrimination” against unvaccinated people

#37

Post by AYBABTME »

stefan_ wrote: post #19
raxxorrax wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is ridiculous really. I have been vaccinated with Moderna, which didn't even bring anything else to the market as far as I know. Listening to these people wanting to nudge others I wish I didn't get vaccinated. I think the damage Covid can cause is significant, but this is an experimental treatment. To my disappointment I didn't get magnetic, but doctors claiming there cannot be any unforseen dangers are lying to…

There have been hundreds of millions of vaccinations. What unforseen danger is there at this point? Be precise.

What if there's unpredictable long term consequences? Like, turns out XYZ compounds gives cancer but that only become detectable after 18+ months. Although I admit I don't know if regular trials would uncover these either.

I have no dog in this fight, I'm just providing a possible answer.

Re: Some states push to ban “discrimination” against unvaccinated people

#38

Post by mjburgess »

qeternity wrote: post #10
ZeroGravitas wrote: post #9

Is seems like a new trend for right wing ideas to be expressed in what would traditionally be considered left-wing concepts and language. Does that mean they lost the culture war or is it just a new phase?

No it means both sides have serious ideological flaws and that their prototypical stances sometimes blur as a result. For instance, the constitution ensures both the right to vote and the right to bear arms. The liberal stance is that voter ID infringes on rights, but gun ID does not. And the GOP stance is the reverse. Both are logically inconsistent, just different dog whistle topics. You can feel however you want t…

The constitution does not obviously guarantee a right for individuals to own guns. Nor a right to vote.

The second amendment is explicitly predicated on, "A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State".

You can easily now read that predicate as false in the contemporary united states, and hence, the derivative right not obtaining.

Ie., the 2nd A. says, "given it is necessary for Militia, individuals need arms". But there no militia, and there need be none. The US has police forces now, and a standing army. The citizens do not form Militias when the US is under attack, nor to police themselves.

As for a right to vote, the 15th A. says only what grounds are invalid for denying it -- it can, and is, denied for other grounds (eg., being convicted of a crime).

The US constitution, as far as I'm aware, is not a "democratic" document in the sense of establishing anything like an electoral democracy.

The US constitution is a series of essentially jointly-incoherent political principles and stipulations that provide the judiciary independent means of constraining the legislature and the executive. There isn't a particularly coherent contemporary political stand point which makes sense of it all.

And certainly modern political principles like "individual rights to arms" and "voting rights" are not really to be found in the constitution in anything like a contemporary form.

Re: Some states push to ban “discrimination” against unvaccinated people

#39

Post by Nursie »

LifeIsThermal wrote: post #12
irish_guy_uk wrote: post #8

As a healthy, 30 something year old living in the UK the only reason I took the vaccine (both doses) was in the civic duty which said that once a certain percentage of the population was done, then restrictions could end. Now it looks like that's kinda happening in a week but even so the BMA and others are calling this irresponsible and there's an unsaid expectation of further lockdowns. I'm really starting to wonder…

There´s only one reason for taking the vaxx, to protect yourself from severe disease. You should not take it because you want restrictions to end, it has been clear for a long time that the restrictions will not go away. If you´re young and healthy, and maybe even already had covid, you benefit as much from the vaccine as you do from a tinfoil hat.

> There´s only one reason for taking the vaxx, to protect yourself from severe disease.

This is nonsense. There are several, and they include helping to protect other people both directly by reducing spread and indirectly by not acting as a host for potential variants.

> it has been clear for a long time that the restrictions will not go away

And this is pure conspiracy thinking.

Re: Some states push to ban “discrimination” against unvaccinated people

#40

Post by gildas »

AYBABTME wrote: post #25

Forgive me for asking a dumb question, and I mean no wrongthought in asking it: if I'm vaccinated, why should I care if others aren't? Does it change anything for my life from here? EDIT: thanks for the answers, exactly the info I needed to update my prior beliefs.

The main goal of all these actions is to end the pandemic in just a few years.
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