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Some states push to ban “discrimination” against unvaccinated people

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Re: Some states push to ban “discrimination” against unvaccinated people

#11

Post by LifeIsThermal »

raxxorrax wrote: post #6
forcry wrote: post #3

>This removes any opportunity to nudge more people toward getting the shots, he added.“The whole idea behind a good vaccination campaign is making not getting vaccinated the harder choice, and getting vaccinated the easy choice. Right now it’s the exact opposite — it’s easier not to be vaccinated." So people are supposed to be "nudged" into it? And they are supposed to do it because it is easier, as opposed to safer?…

It is ridiculous really. I have been vaccinated with Moderna, which didn't even bring anything else to the market as far as I know. Listening to these people wanting to nudge others I wish I didn't get vaccinated. I think the damage Covid can cause is significant, but this is an experimental treatment. To my disappointment I didn't get magnetic, but doctors claiming there cannot be any unforseen dangers are lying to…

I´m less worried by vaccine safety than the vaccine strategy. You don´t normally vaccinate in an ongoing pandemic, usually you vaccinate when a virus is not in circulation. By vaccinating in this way, in an already infected population, you add selection pressure that creates an advantage for more contagious vaccine-resistant strains. This is the real danger in my opinion, but of course side effects of this new vaccine technology can emerge. We´ve already seen Pfizers vaccine downgraded to 64% efficacy in Israel due to the Delta-variant, so vaccine resistant mutations are a real thing.

There´s one scientist that predicted this development perfectly, Geert Vanden Bosschen. He´s the only one so far that has made correct predictions in this pandemic. He said that mass-vaccinating during ongoing pandemic will result in rising numbers of cases among fully vaccinated people a couple of months after vaccination, caused by selective pressure leading to vaccine resistant mutations dominating. He also warns strongly against vaccinating children. But he praises the new vaccine technology, so he´s not antivaxx.

Re: Some states push to ban “discrimination” against unvaccinated people

#12

Post by LifeIsThermal »

irish_guy_uk wrote: post #8

As a healthy, 30 something year old living in the UK the only reason I took the vaccine (both doses) was in the civic duty which said that once a certain percentage of the population was done, then restrictions could end. Now it looks like that's kinda happening in a week but even so the BMA and others are calling this irresponsible and there's an unsaid expectation of further lockdowns. I'm really starting to wonder…

There´s only one reason for taking the vaxx, to protect yourself from severe disease. You should not take it because you want restrictions to end, it has been clear for a long time that the restrictions will not go away. If you´re young and healthy, and maybe even already had covid, you benefit as much from the vaccine as you do from a tinfoil hat.

Re: Some states push to ban “discrimination” against unvaccinated people

#13

Post by ZeroGravitas »

qeternity wrote: post #10
ZeroGravitas wrote: post #9

Is seems like a new trend for right wing ideas to be expressed in what would traditionally be considered left-wing concepts and language. Does that mean they lost the culture war or is it just a new phase?

No it means both sides have serious ideological flaws and that their prototypical stances sometimes blur as a result. For instance, the constitution ensures both the right to vote and the right to bear arms. The liberal stance is that voter ID infringes on rights, but gun ID does not. And the GOP stance is the reverse. Both are logically inconsistent, just different dog whistle topics. You can feel however you want t…

I wpuld say that's an opposite example.

You can or cant do X because of a legalistic reading of an old document seems like a more classic liberal approach. (And in both cases you coukd argue that the original document was explicit in excluding specific groups from these "rights")

The classic left position would be about disenfranchisment of certain groups and changing the rules to fix it.

Re: Some states push to ban “discrimination” against unvaccinated people

#14

Post by irish_guy_uk »

LifeIsThermal wrote: post #12
irish_guy_uk wrote: post #8

As a healthy, 30 something year old living in the UK the only reason I took the vaccine (both doses) was in the civic duty which said that once a certain percentage of the population was done, then restrictions could end. Now it looks like that's kinda happening in a week but even so the BMA and others are calling this irresponsible and there's an unsaid expectation of further lockdowns. I'm really starting to wonder…

There´s only one reason for taking the vaxx, to protect yourself from severe disease. You should not take it because you want restrictions to end, it has been clear for a long time that the restrictions will not go away. If you´re young and healthy, and maybe even already had covid, you benefit as much from the vaccine as you do from a tinfoil hat.

I already had covid. Extremely mild. The first vax does had me in bed for a day, missed work with chills, shakes and the worst "hangover" ever. The other main reason I got it is that I want to see my parents (abroad) and the vaccine status will no doubt factor into that. Not for another couple of months hopefully but I haven't seen them in nearly two years.

Re: Some states push to ban “discrimination” against unvaccinated people

#15

Post by mattashii »

LifeIsThermal wrote: post #12
irish_guy_uk wrote: post #8

As a healthy, 30 something year old living in the UK the only reason I took the vaccine (both doses) was in the civic duty which said that once a certain percentage of the population was done, then restrictions could end. Now it looks like that's kinda happening in a week but even so the BMA and others are calling this irresponsible and there's an unsaid expectation of further lockdowns. I'm really starting to wonder…

There´s only one reason for taking the vaxx, to protect yourself from severe disease. You should not take it because you want restrictions to end, it has been clear for a long time that the restrictions will not go away. If you´re young and healthy, and maybe even already had covid, you benefit as much from the vaccine as you do from a tinfoil hat.

> There´s only one reason for taking the vaxx, to protect yourself from severe disease.

My second reason to get vaccinated was to slow down spread as far as reasonably possible. Ergo, there are more reasons to get vaccinated than just that one you mentioned.

> If you´re young and healthy, [...] you benefit as much from the vaccine as you do from a tinfoil hat.

Bullshit. A tinfoil hat doesn't protect you against a covid infection a few weeks down the line, a vaccine does. And even though the likelyhood of severe symptoms for COVID-19 is generally lower for younger people, it's still beneficial to get vaccinated due to the lower chance on extreme symptoms and 'long covid'.

Re: Some states push to ban “discrimination” against unvaccinated people

#16

Post by qmmmur »

qeternity wrote: post #10
ZeroGravitas wrote: post #9

Is seems like a new trend for right wing ideas to be expressed in what would traditionally be considered left-wing concepts and language. Does that mean they lost the culture war or is it just a new phase?

No it means both sides have serious ideological flaws and that their prototypical stances sometimes blur as a result. For instance, the constitution ensures both the right to vote and the right to bear arms. The liberal stance is that voter ID infringes on rights, but gun ID does not. And the GOP stance is the reverse. Both are logically inconsistent, just different dog whistle topics. You can feel however you want t…

I think you're also missing a key nuance to the reality of arguing for voter ID. Right wing didn't want to provide it but agreed it could be mandatory to vote,so it's reasonable to reneg and highlight the issues with that.

Re: Some states push to ban “discrimination” against unvaccinated people

#17

Post by rich_sasha »

irish_guy_uk wrote: post #14
LifeIsThermal wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There´s only one reason for taking the vaxx, to protect yourself from severe disease. You should not take it because you want restrictions to end, it has been clear for a long time that the restrictions will not go away. If you´re young and healthy, and maybe even already had covid, you benefit as much from the vaccine as you do from a tinfoil hat.

I already had covid. Extremely mild. The first vax does had me in bed for a day, missed work with chills, shakes and the worst "hangover" ever. The other main reason I got it is that I want to see my parents (abroad) and the vaccine status will no doubt factor into that. Not for another couple of months hopefully but I haven't seen them in nearly two years.

In the UK, most people getting into hospitals now with severe Covid are young and unvaccinated. So while yes, the risks are much lower for young people, there are enough of them getting seriously ill.

Re: Some states push to ban “discrimination” against unvaccinated people

#18

Post by LifeIsThermal »

mattashii wrote: post #15
LifeIsThermal wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There´s only one reason for taking the vaxx, to protect yourself from severe disease. You should not take it because you want restrictions to end, it has been clear for a long time that the restrictions will not go away. If you´re young and healthy, and maybe even already had covid, you benefit as much from the vaccine as you do from a tinfoil hat.

> There´s only one reason for taking the vaxx, to protect yourself from severe disease. My second reason to get vaccinated was to slow down spread as far as reasonably possible. Ergo, there are more reasons to get vaccinated than just that one you mentioned. > If you´re young and healthy, [...] you benefit as much from the vaccine as you do from a tinfoil hat. Bullshit. A tinfoil hat doesn't protect you against a cov…

The risk of severe illness in healthy people is extremely low. Here in Sweden it´s less than 0.2%. If you already had covid the risk is something like 0.00008% to even get infected. In my view, both of those numbers are so low that protection from vaccination is equal to a tinfoil hat. Only an idiot vaccinates himself for a virus with 0.2% risk of severe disease.

Now, there might be a difference in what we call "healthy people" here in Sweden. Because we´re not fat.

Re: Some states push to ban “discrimination” against unvaccinated people

#19

Post by stefan_ »

raxxorrax wrote: post #6
forcry wrote: post #3

>This removes any opportunity to nudge more people toward getting the shots, he added.“The whole idea behind a good vaccination campaign is making not getting vaccinated the harder choice, and getting vaccinated the easy choice. Right now it’s the exact opposite — it’s easier not to be vaccinated." So people are supposed to be "nudged" into it? And they are supposed to do it because it is easier, as opposed to safer?…

It is ridiculous really. I have been vaccinated with Moderna, which didn't even bring anything else to the market as far as I know. Listening to these people wanting to nudge others I wish I didn't get vaccinated. I think the damage Covid can cause is significant, but this is an experimental treatment. To my disappointment I didn't get magnetic, but doctors claiming there cannot be any unforseen dangers are lying to…

There have been hundreds of millions of vaccinations. What unforseen danger is there at this point? Be precise.

Re: Some states push to ban “discrimination” against unvaccinated people

#20

Post by LifeIsThermal »

rich_sasha wrote: post #17
irish_guy_uk wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I already had covid. Extremely mild. The first vax does had me in bed for a day, missed work with chills, shakes and the worst "hangover" ever. The other main reason I got it is that I want to see my parents (abroad) and the vaccine status will no doubt factor into that. Not for another couple of months hopefully but I haven't seen them in nearly two years.

In the UK, most people getting into hospitals now with severe Covid are young and unvaccinated. So while yes, the risks are much lower for young people, there are enough of them getting seriously ill.

Not much different from how influenza also gets some young people in hospitals then? We don´t vaccinate young people against influenza either, because the risk is so low. Let the children build up natural immunity, they´ll benefit from that in the future. Vaccinate people at risk, elderly and sick people. Just like we always do. Changing strategy from what´s already known to work, when the stakes are this high, is very reckless.
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