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Girls sweep at Google Science Fair

nytimes.com

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Re: Girls sweep at Google Science Fair

#11

Post by raganwald »

ricefield wrote: post #4

I didn't read the article in is entirety, but one line popped out at me, where one of the finalists says something like "Yeah! Girl power!" Am I the only one who feels like, although men may 'dominate' the hard sciences, one of the reasons (among many others which I won't discuss) why girls may succeed at stages like this is because of the encouragement from a "girl power!" (perhaps, underdog?) mentality? If boys won…

No, you're not the only one, and your comment strongly reminds me of the question of why society frowns on "White Power" and "White Pride." I can't really think of anything to tell you that hasn't been said to people asking this question for the last fifty years or so, just pointing out that the issues of insiders vs. outsiders seem to be similar.

Re: Girls sweep at Google Science Fair

#12

Post by sp332 »

ricefield wrote: post #4

I didn't read the article in is entirety, but one line popped out at me, where one of the finalists says something like "Yeah! Girl power!" Am I the only one who feels like, although men may 'dominate' the hard sciences, one of the reasons (among many others which I won't discuss) why girls may succeed at stages like this is because of the encouragement from a "girl power!" (perhaps, underdog?) mentality? If boys won…

they would simply be accused of being sexist

Yes, but unfairly. I think the exclamation was one of surprise, not putting down boys. It would be hard to tell, without being there.

Re: Girls sweep at Google Science Fair

#13

Post by meow »

The winning entry was for finding a way to overcome the resistance to a drug by cancer cells. I'm curious, how does a 17 year old get access to labs, chemicals, cell cultures required to conduct the study ? Is it common in US for students of this age to have access to such things ?

Re: Girls sweep at Google Science Fair

#14

Post by libria »

ricefield wrote: post #4

I didn't read the article in is entirety, but one line popped out at me, where one of the finalists says something like "Yeah! Girl power!" Am I the only one who feels like, although men may 'dominate' the hard sciences, one of the reasons (among many others which I won't discuss) why girls may succeed at stages like this is because of the encouragement from a "girl power!" (perhaps, underdog?) mentality? If boys won…

The "Girl Power" attitude probably reflects more of a clique-ish divide common at that age rather than a social aside on gender inequality, similar to a "Generic HS represent!" cheer.

The more alarming quote was Cerf's "I was secretly very pleased to see that happen." The obvious corollary is that he would have been secretly less pleased if boys had won. Does that indicate he has lesser expectations for women? Would his (probably) sub-conscious bias actually hurt girls perceptions of themselves in the long run?

Reminds me of the Reddit thread for a women-only programming event that received some backlash: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/h0fe0/pyladies_...

Re: Girls sweep at Google Science Fair

#15

Post by raganwald »

funkah wrote: post #10
ricefield wrote: post #4

I didn't read the article in is entirety, but one line popped out at me, where one of the finalists says something like "Yeah! Girl power!" Am I the only one who feels like, although men may 'dominate' the hard sciences, one of the reasons (among many others which I won't discuss) why girls may succeed at stages like this is because of the encouragement from a "girl power!" (perhaps, underdog?) mentality? If boys won…

You would think we could just celebrate that they're smart, but apparently we need to celebrate that they're smart and that they're girls. I think that sends a bad message, that girls are hothouse flowers or somehow need more encouragement for them to do well.

Wait, what!?

Let's say, for example, that we have a country like Fiji where XC skiing is rare. But a university student from Fiji he takes up the sport. He ends up representing his country in the 1988 Olympics:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiji_at_the_1988_Winter_Olympic...

Now, if he were to go on and actually win an Olympic medal, is it wrong of us to say, "Wow, that's amazing considering he's from a country that traditionally doesn't do very well in Winter sports?" Are we treating him like a hot house flower to celebrate the fact that he skiis and he's from Fiji?

Do we think Fijians have some sort of character defect if they need to be encouraged to try this sport that for decades has been dominated by people who aren't very much like them at all?

Re: Girls sweep at Google Science Fair

#16

Post by Qo »

meow wrote: post #13

The winning entry was for finding a way to overcome the resistance to a drug by cancer cells. I'm curious, how does a 17 year old get access to labs, chemicals, cell cultures required to conduct the study ? Is it common in US for students of this age to have access to such things ?

I wondered the same thing about the third place contestant. The write-up said she measured the carcinogens in grilled chicken using a high pressure liquid chromatograph-mass spectrometer. When I was in college, they would only let us use the analytic equipment in planned labs under supervised conditions. I can only imagine the response if I went to the lab manager and asked if I could put a piece of chicken in his spectrometer.

Re: Girls sweep at Google Science Fair

#18

Post by raganwald »

libria wrote: post #14
ricefield wrote: post #4

I didn't read the article in is entirety, but one line popped out at me, where one of the finalists says something like "Yeah! Girl power!" Am I the only one who feels like, although men may 'dominate' the hard sciences, one of the reasons (among many others which I won't discuss) why girls may succeed at stages like this is because of the encouragement from a "girl power!" (perhaps, underdog?) mentality? If boys won…

The "Girl Power" attitude probably reflects more of a clique-ish divide common at that age rather than a social aside on gender inequality, similar to a "Generic HS represent!" cheer. The more alarming quote was Cerf's "I was secretly very pleased to see that happen." The obvious corollary is that he would have been secretly less pleased if boys had won. Does that indicate he has lesser expectations for women? Would…

The more alarming quote was Cerf's "I was secretly very pleased to see that happen." The obvious corollary is that he would have been secretly less pleased if boys had won.

Another alarming interpretation is that he was secretly pleased that the girls had won, but would have been openly pleased if boys had won :-)

Re: Girls sweep at Google Science Fair

#19

Post by ricefield »

jamesaguilar wrote: post #8
ricefield wrote: post #4

I didn't read the article in is entirety, but one line popped out at me, where one of the finalists says something like "Yeah! Girl power!" Am I the only one who feels like, although men may 'dominate' the hard sciences, one of the reasons (among many others which I won't discuss) why girls may succeed at stages like this is because of the encouragement from a "girl power!" (perhaps, underdog?) mentality? If boys won…

Solidarity has historically been acceptable in disadvantaged groups and frowned upon when exhibited by privileged groups. This reasons for this should be fairly obvious.

True, but I guess I'm starting to feel that girls are no longer "disadvantaged." Less interested, maybe, disadvantaged, not so much.

EDIT: for context, I'm a child of the 90's, perhaps much different (or not) from some of you. I grew up in liberal(?) Silicon Valley. As a male, my entire life I've felt that girls were encouraged to succeed academically, received extra help, and greatly praised for their accomplishments, all because of a perceived societal disadvantage; whereas the boys were either expected to succeed, or largely disregarded because, hey what's the big deal? they're somehow at a huge advantage anyways.

in my high school graduating class, both the valedictorian and salutatorian were girls. and while I had guy friends who were equally brilliant, they never had the motivation or desire to succeed academically the way those girls (one of whom i was best friends with) were. to me it was striking to see brilliant young men and women, and the startling contrast in motivation and approaches to life (the guys were incredibly laid back, the girls were very much go-getters).

these are my personal observations, and as stated above, a personal feeling, fwiw (probably not much)

Re: Girls sweep at Google Science Fair

#20

Post by jamesaguilar »

ricefield wrote: post #19
jamesaguilar wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Solidarity has historically been acceptable in disadvantaged groups and frowned upon when exhibited by privileged groups. This reasons for this should be fairly obvious.

True, but I guess I'm starting to feel that girls are no longer "disadvantaged." Less interested, maybe, disadvantaged, not so much. EDIT: for context, I'm a child of the 90's, perhaps much different (or not) from some of you. I grew up in liberal(?) Silicon Valley. As a male, my entire life I've felt that girls were encouraged to succeed academically, received extra help, and greatly praised for their accomplishment…

On what basis do you think this? Simply because there are no longer any laws which explicitly disadvantage women?

For example, do you think women are equally likely to be discriminated against on the basis of sex as men? Do you think they are equally likely to be abused domestically, or harassed on the street? Do you think men and women are equally likely to be the target of sexual harassment in the workplace? Do you think the two groups are equally likely to be raped?

I doubt the numbers will bear out in your favor on any of these points were we to check them. And these are only explicit forms of discrimination. This does not account for latent discrimination, which is quite difficult to measure but probably exists more copiously than explicit discrimination.

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