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Temozolomide Is Explosive

blogs.sciencemag.org

101–110 of 128 posts

Re: Temozolomide Is Explosive

#101
post #6

Chemotherapy is basically cave man medicine. That a therapeutic drug is explosive only adds to that sentiment. The idea that we'll basically poison you just up to a point that's nearly fatal in order to kill the cancer is such a terrible way to treat someone. Now I'm not saying don't ever do it -- unfortunately that's where we're at in 2021. It's just kind of unbelievable that cancer remains so elusive that we're sti…

This is a very ignorant and low effort comment. Let me illustrate:

> Chemotherapy is basically cave man medicine

A meaningless statement. Actually, there is a sophisticated system of diagnosis and staging to work out who needs chemotherapy at all. This includes CT scans, ultrasound, MRI, positron emission tomorography. Chemotherapy agents are modern pharmaceuticals with a variety of supportive care measures to help patients who can benefit from them. How is nanoparticle bound paclitaxel a cave man medicine?

> The idea that we'll basically poison you just up to a point that's nearly fatal in order to kill the cancer is such a terrible way to treat someone.

Again, ignorant. Highly toxic multi-agent chemotherapy is used in acute leukaemias, because the patient will literally die next week or sometimes in a day unless you start treating. In that case you are trying to help someone who is already very sick, so of course there is a high mortality rate, but it is less than the 100% without treatment. How do you suggest we work out the best dose of chemotherapy, apart from giving it at increasing doses and monitoring what happens in a phase I trial? Anyway, many chemotherapy agents are given at a dose that controls disease and maintains quality of life in incurable disease, in direct opposition to your off-hand comment.

> Now I'm not saying don't ever do it -- unfortunately that's where we're at in 2021.

Do you realise that there are malignancies which are 100% fatal without chemotherapy, but curable with chemotherapy? Germ cell tumours in men for example. Acute leukaemias. Lymphomas. Gestational trophoblastic tumours. So what on earth are you talking about?

> It's just kind of unbelievable that cancer remains so elusive that we're still using medical treatments that started from mustard gas usage during world wars, when we're so advanced technologically in so many other ways.

Most chemotherapy agents in use today are not based on mustard gas, for a start. Many of them come from plants. One of the most useful and well tolerated chemotherapy agents comes from the bark the pacific yew tree. Anyway, the argument is stupid - your car engine is based on explosions, so car engines cannot be sophisticated or useful?

> Interestingly, cancers for children are largely successfully treated. I was at a fancy conference a few years ago where some cancer researchers were socializing over wine, and I asked them why that was versus adults. They said the difference was that parents are willing to do almost anything (aka enroll their kids in experimental treatments) to cure their kids, but adults aren't quite so willing for themselves.

This is bullshit. Walk into a clinical trials unit in an adult cancer centre and you'll see. The reason cancers in children are different are because the biology is different, to state the bleeding obvious. Also children are much more physiologically resilient and don't have other medical problems, so their response to treatment is fundamentally different.

Re: Temozolomide Is Explosive

#102
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That a therapeutic drug is explosive only adds to that sentiment. Explosivity and toxicity are unrelated. Cyanide can kill you, but it's not explosive IIRC. You can make explosives with aluminum, but it's safe to use as a food container, ... > Chemotherapy is basically cave man medicine. The main problem is that cancer cells and normal cells are very similar. Anything that kills cancer cells will probably kill norm…

>Explosivity and toxicity are unrelated. Really? Doesn't something being explosive mean it's highly unstable and reactive? Presumably ingesting highly reactive reagents is toxic.

There are many different kinds of reactivity... chemical, thermal, shock (e.g. hit it with a hammer go boom).

One of the medicines with the longest history is nitroglycerin (for various heart conditions), which is literally dynamite.

Re: Temozolomide Is Explosive

#103
post #88
post #9

Is it all that surprising though, considering how much nitrogen is stuffed into that molecule?

Just by looking at it I get the impression every part of the molecule has a deep hatred for every other part.

Nah, it's more like a wedding reception -- every Nitrogen atom is just super eager to form an exclusive pairing next.

Re: Temozolomide Is Explosive

#104
post #101
post #6

Chemotherapy is basically cave man medicine. That a therapeutic drug is explosive only adds to that sentiment. The idea that we'll basically poison you just up to a point that's nearly fatal in order to kill the cancer is such a terrible way to treat someone. Now I'm not saying don't ever do it -- unfortunately that's where we're at in 2021. It's just kind of unbelievable that cancer remains so elusive that we're sti…

This is a very ignorant and low effort comment. Let me illustrate: > Chemotherapy is basically cave man medicine A meaningless statement. Actually, there is a sophisticated system of diagnosis and staging to work out who needs chemotherapy at all. This includes CT scans, ultrasound, MRI, positron emission tomorography. Chemotherapy agents are modern pharmaceuticals with a variety of supportive care measures to help p…

Not only did you misinterpret a lot of what I said (including the fact that I wasn't particularly making an argument, but rather an observation and opinion), your aggressive response certainly doesn't invite dialog and is in violation of multiple HN guidelines. I suggest you read them and consider being kinder in your word choice.

Re: Temozolomide Is Explosive

#105
post #48

Somewhat surprisingly, this was NOT filed under "Stuff I Won't Work With"

It sounds like this stuff is only mildly dangerous and easy to keep safe with if you know what you're doing. Considering that it's been used as a chemotherapy drug for years, it'd be surprising if it wasn't. Most of the "Stuff I Won't Work With" is fantastically dangerous even when you know exactly what you're dealing with and take all of the right precautions.

It seems like the hazardous bit is more the fact that this stuff is extremely toxic.

Re: Temozolomide Is Explosive

#106
post #6

Chemotherapy is basically cave man medicine. That a therapeutic drug is explosive only adds to that sentiment. The idea that we'll basically poison you just up to a point that's nearly fatal in order to kill the cancer is such a terrible way to treat someone. Now I'm not saying don't ever do it -- unfortunately that's where we're at in 2021. It's just kind of unbelievable that cancer remains so elusive that we're sti…

Chemotherapy, like cancer, is not one thing. Some of it is a matter of poisoning the body in ways that disrupt rapidly-dividing cells. This is why chemo patients frequently lose their hair (and other things you don't hear as much about, like gametes, fingernails, mucous membranes/digestive lining). You can call this "cave man medicine". Although that's more dismissive than is warranted, there's no denying that it's a…

I'm glad that worked out well for you. I have friends who haven't been as lucky. Again, I'm not suggesting don't do chemo, I just wish we were much further ahead in targeted and less toxic treatment options such that chemo wasn't in the picture.

Re: Temozolomide Is Explosive

#108
post #94
post #6

Chemotherapy is basically cave man medicine. That a therapeutic drug is explosive only adds to that sentiment. The idea that we'll basically poison you just up to a point that's nearly fatal in order to kill the cancer is such a terrible way to treat someone. Now I'm not saying don't ever do it -- unfortunately that's where we're at in 2021. It's just kind of unbelievable that cancer remains so elusive that we're sti…

I’d say this is a pretty unfair assessment. Sure chemotherapy such as nitrogen mustards are still used (because they are effective) but plenty of newer drugs are very targeted. And it’s not like our approach is all that different for other life threatening diseases. Multi-drug resistant infection? Let me use antibiotics on you that will make you deaf and maybe damage your heart.

I said started with, not continued to be exactly that. Of course new drugs and treatments have come out since.

Many other drugs/treatments can also be really bad! I'm on some pretty bad drugs myself right now (not cancer related), and wish other options existed here too. Cancer isn't the only area of medicine where I wish I was born hundreds of years in the future!

Re: Temozolomide Is Explosive

#109
post #32

For those who don't know yet, Derek Lowe's series "Things I won't work with" is very fun to read, and also educational. https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/category/thin...

Derek's stuff is awesome in general... "Things.." is really funny, but I find his columns about the inner workings of pharma companies to be really interesting as well.

Re: Temozolomide Is Explosive

#110
post #6

Chemotherapy is basically cave man medicine. That a therapeutic drug is explosive only adds to that sentiment. The idea that we'll basically poison you just up to a point that's nearly fatal in order to kill the cancer is such a terrible way to treat someone. Now I'm not saying don't ever do it -- unfortunately that's where we're at in 2021. It's just kind of unbelievable that cancer remains so elusive that we're sti…

>Perhaps one day we'll be able to simulate the body well enough to the point where we can brute force treatments computationally to fix this gap. This is why as a total outsider/non-expert I believe we will cure everything in the next 50 years if we do not regress or destroy ourselves.

Simulating a single cell, let alone an entire human will be the final problem we ever solve. It's that difficult.
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