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Scenarios in which Tesla FSD Beta 9.0 fails

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Re: Scenarios in which Tesla FSD Beta 9.0 fails

#401

Post by nullc »

TheParkShark wrote: post #382
nullc wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And Tesla FSD is available to what... two dozen parties outside of the company? AFAIK both have extremely limited availability. Waymo doesn't require frequent human intervention to prevent life threatening situations.

Life threatening? Have you ever used cruise control? In most vehicles on the roads today it doesn’t even brake for itself. Should we recall all vehicles with cruise controls cause the drivers don’t pay attention? Perhaps not, and if you watched those videos no lives were threatened, despite your claim. Tech is advancing and you seem to be on the other side of this equation out of some safety issue. Did you know 38,00…

People dying is auto-accidents is bad, but this figure will not be reduced by faulty software which repeatedly swerves towards concrete pylons.

If you care about reducing automotive deaths then you should agree that reckless "full self driving" functionality which is anything but is a concern: behavior like this will create public and regulatory pushback which ultimately delays the availability of safety improving technology.

Re: Scenarios in which Tesla FSD Beta 9.0 fails

#402

Post by spywaregorilla »

Animats wrote: post #203
mortenjorck wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The monorail video is jaw-dropping. Nine versions in, I would expect ongoing challenges with things like you mention. But continued failure to even see large, flat obstacles is no longer something that needs to be fixed – that it has persisted this long (even after killing someone as in the case of T-boning a semi trailer at highway speeds) is an indictment of the entire approach Tesla has been taking to FSD. I used…

The monorail video is jaw-dropping. Yes. Pause the video and look at the car's screen. There's no indication on screen of the columns. A car on the other side of the row of columns is recognized, but not the columns. It's clear that Tesla has a special-purpose recognizer for "car". The columns are a solid obstacle almost impinging into the road, one that doesn't look like a car. That's the standard Tesla fail. Most h…

Would the screen show the column if functioning correctly? I don't know this ui.

Re: Scenarios in which Tesla FSD Beta 9.0 fails

#403

Post by esperent »

TheParkShark wrote: post #340
nikhizzle wrote: post #3

Does anyone have any insight as to why regulators allow a beta like this on the road with drivers who are not trained to specifically respond to it's mistakes? IMHO this puts everybody and their children at risk so Tesla can beta test earlier, but I would love to corrected.

Everyone and their children seems a bit hyperbolic. There hasn’t been an accident involving FSD beta 9, but I’m sure someone has been killed at the hands of a drunk driver today. I am failing to find any comments from you arguing for alcohol to be removed from shelves across the country? Why aren’t you pushing your regulators for that?

Drunk driving is already illegal. Claiming that we should ban all alcohol because people use it to commit illegal acts makes about as much sense as claiming we should ban kitchen knives because people occasionally use them for stabbing.

Besides that, FSD being less dangerous than drunk driving is a terrible benchmark.

Re: Scenarios in which Tesla FSD Beta 9.0 fails

#404

Post by woeirua »

cs702 wrote: post #174
richwater wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It literally doesn't matter how well it does in 90% of situations when the other 10% can injure or kill people in relatively basic scenarios like the Tweets presented. I mean the car almost ran into a concrete pillar like it wasn't even there. > For BETA software, FSD 9 is doing remarkably well If this was a React website, that'd be great. But it's a production $40,000 multi ton automobile.

> ...doesn't matter how well it does in 90% of situations... Based on the full-length videos, I'd say it's more like 99.9% or even 99.99% for FSD 9.

No, it's not. In the full length video, there were 3 manual interventions in less than 30 minutes of drive time. If you're counting interventions per second, then sure that's 99.9%, but if you're counting safety critical interventions that would have led to an accident per mile then that rate is abysmal.

Re: Scenarios in which Tesla FSD Beta 9.0 fails

#405

Post by amanaplanacanal »

bobsomers wrote: post #92
serverholic wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are going to need a fundamental breakthrough in AI to achieve the level of FSD that people expect. Like a convolutional neural network level breakthrough.

I don't think that's necessarily true. There are plenty of people in the AV space that routinely drive significantly better than this and are already doing completely driverless service in some geofences. The problem with Tesla's approach has always been that Elon wanted to sell it before he actually knew anything about how to solve it. It's lead to series of compounding errors in Tesla's approach to AVs. The vehicle…

> The problem with Tesla's approach has always been that Elon wanted to sell it before he actually knew anything about how to solve it.

Wasn’t there recently a medical testing company that completely blew up, with associated felony charges, for attempting this sort of strategy?

Re: Scenarios in which Tesla FSD Beta 9.0 fails

#406

Post by AndrewKemendo »

Syonyk wrote: post #11

I don't understand how something this broken is allowed to operate on public roads. If I drove like Tesla's FSD seems to based on the videos I've seen, I'd be pulled out of my car and arrested on (well founded) suspicions of "driving while hammered." After a decade of work, it's not capable of doing much beyond "blundering around a city mostly without hitting stuff, but pay attention, because it'll try to hit the mos…

>At this point, I think we can reasonably say that it's easier to land people on the moon than teach a car to drive.

I think this is pretty well understood to be the case. Level 5 FSD is magnitudes harder.

Re: Scenarios in which Tesla FSD Beta 9.0 fails

#407

Post by carlivar »

moralestapia wrote: post #148
dnautics wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually most of us can do any or all of the following things that Elon did (write a tweet calling a diver a pedo, write a tweet claiming that a stock will go to 420 huh huh, tweet random nonsense about cryptos, criticize the SEC or FAA, etc.) with very little consequence, if any.

Step 1: Become the CEO/major shareholder of a billion+ dollar company. Step 2: Publicly lie about some purported acquisition with the purpose of manipulating the stock of said company. We can talk after you've done that, from jail probably.

The part Musk did: inserted a step 1.5 of building a mythos as someone essentially worshipped by one of history's biggest group of fanboys.

You can find a nameless CEO guilty. No one cares. No popular Twitter account or quirky pop culture aspects! But Musk knows his place he has created in our culture has made him untouchable.

Re: Scenarios in which Tesla FSD Beta 9.0 fails

#408

Post by snet0 »

renewiltord wrote: post #400
nikhizzle wrote: post #3

Does anyone have any insight as to why regulators allow a beta like this on the road with drivers who are not trained to specifically respond to it's mistakes? IMHO this puts everybody and their children at risk so Tesla can beta test earlier, but I would love to corrected.

Because Tesla FSD accidents don’t kill people who were not party to the agreement. That seems intuitively fair to me.

I'm sure you don't actually think this, if you think about it for a second longer. "What's wrong with drunk drivers? They're only harming themselves?"

Re: Scenarios in which Tesla FSD Beta 9.0 fails

#409

Post by carlivar »

ricardobeat wrote: post #344
Syonyk wrote: post #11

I don't understand how something this broken is allowed to operate on public roads. If I drove like Tesla's FSD seems to based on the videos I've seen, I'd be pulled out of my car and arrested on (well founded) suspicions of "driving while hammered." After a decade of work, it's not capable of doing much beyond "blundering around a city mostly without hitting stuff, but pay attention, because it'll try to hit the mos…

This is a collection of videos from thousands of hours of driving. I’m sure you can do much worse from human drivers…

Yep, cars are bouncing off Seattle monorail pillars constantly.

Re: Scenarios in which Tesla FSD Beta 9.0 fails

#410

Post by renewiltord »

snet0 wrote: post #408
renewiltord wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because Tesla FSD accidents don’t kill people who were not party to the agreement. That seems intuitively fair to me.

I'm sure you don't actually think this, if you think about it for a second longer. "What's wrong with drunk drivers? They're only harming themselves?"

Well, the problem with drunk driving is that it kills other people. We’ve witnessed it. We know it happens. Because we have seen it occur.

Tesla FSD driving assist has never killed someone not in the car.

Considering that rampant safetyism is par for the course here, I’m hardly convinced of the “he could’ve killed someone” school of thought.

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