Tesla’s $16k Quote for a $700 Fix Is Why Right to Repair Matters • Hacker News Board

Re: Tesla’s $16k Quote for a $700 Fix Is Why Right to Repair Matters

#311

Post by rdtwo » Tue, Jul 13, 2021, 1:44 AM UTC

olyjohn wrote: post #64

mulmen wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I rent a car I am not responsible for repairs. If I am on the hook for the repair bill I should get a choice in how the car is repaired. I can buy whatever tires I want for a leased car. If Tesla wants to make these kinds of demands then the repair should be part of the warranty and priced in to the car. > I would read this as a cautionary tale against renting your cars. If you can’t buy it, don’t! This holds tr…

The benefit of buying it is that you can drive it well after it's paid off. Leasing and trading up all the time means you're constantly making never-ending payments. It's not that hard to sell your car when the time comes to get rid of it.

It’s not that simple. Sometimes the lease is a better deal if you fall into the correct mileage band or if a manufacturer over estimates residual value. This happens a lot for fast depreciation luxury cars that aren’t a as popular or low end economy cars that manufacturers are dumping.

Re: Tesla’s $16k Quote for a $700 Fix Is Why Right to Repair Matters

#312

Post by alrs » Tue, Jul 13, 2021, 1:45 AM UTC

crmrc114 wrote: post #303

namdnay wrote: post #3

A bit of a stretch to classify this under right to repair.. if you rent a car from tesla, it’s going to be up to tesla to choose how it’s repaired. And it doesn’t seem unreasonable that they won’t accept a hack fix (however safe it may be) - that car is going to be sold to someone once the lease expires, they just can’t take the risk I would read this as a cautionary tale against renting your cars. If you can’t buy i…

Mate, your talking about a brass nipple being threaded into a broken plastic part to replace a plastic reducer that was [probably] poorly ultrasonic welded in place. What I see in the article is a common sense repair. Anyone who turns a wrench is laughing at the Tesla fanboy pearl clutching over this. Not an attack on your post btw, just a general statement that every Tesla owner comes out of the cracks in these post…

Tesla stockholders, not Tesla owners, but yes.

Re: Tesla’s $16k Quote for a $700 Fix Is Why Right to Repair Matters

#313

Post by Meph504 » Tue, Jul 13, 2021, 1:46 AM UTC

rdtwo wrote: post #298

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>because of terminology like this "Electrified Garage also notes that the cooling system doesn't get anywhere near as hot as an internal combustion engine, and it's not likely that it would either, given that the operating temperature for most lithium-ion batteries is well below 60 degrees Celsius." >So this repair is made on anecdotal observation of ideal conditions, and disregarding factory specifications, and actu…

Tesla’s own factories use all sorts of shoddy fixes. This is a legitimate fix that you could expect at any licensed mechanic and that Tesla would likely use it they had a parts shortage. Not every repair needs to be done with perfect oem replacement parts. Good luck getting an insurance company to cover 100% replacement during an accident for example.

Ok, So your argument is that someone at a Telsa factory did shady shit, so then the company should accept any third parties fixes?

As far as the shoddy work, people keep acting like Telsa is a hivemind, and that every dept. in the company had signed off on these bad choices as a matter of corporate policy. Doesn't seem far more likely somebody working in the factory was worried about making quota, and did a very shitty job?

And as far as the "Not every repair needs to be done with perfect oem replacement parts." I agree, but that should be the owner of the car's choice, and in this case the car is owned by Telsa.

Re: Tesla’s $16k Quote for a $700 Fix Is Why Right to Repair Matters

#314

Post by rdtwo » Tue, Jul 13, 2021, 1:46 AM UTC

Retric wrote: post #208

quickthrowman wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Buying 10 year old cars that are nearly fully depreciated is where you save big money. Not in my experience. You either pay in depreciation or in maintenance, there is no escaping car expenses. A 10 year depreciated car may need a timing belt/water pump, possible head gasket issues, possible transmission issues, etc.

What messes with the perception is people buy used cars they could never afford new. An apples to apples comparison is what that same car would have cost new not simply what someone can afford because it’s new. A nice new BMW SUV is likely to depreciate 30k in 5 years, but that same car is extremely unlikely to need 30k of repairs if bought after 10 years and kept for another 5. More critically you’re also paying dra…

An older bmw could easily cost you 3-5k a year in repairs . Couple that with lesser but still substantial depreciation and you might find it too be a lot more expensive than you thought.

Re: Tesla’s $16k Quote for a $700 Fix Is Why Right to Repair Matters

#315

Post by mulmen » Tue, Jul 13, 2021, 1:46 AM UTC

crmrc114 wrote: post #303

namdnay wrote: post #3

A bit of a stretch to classify this under right to repair.. if you rent a car from tesla, it’s going to be up to tesla to choose how it’s repaired. And it doesn’t seem unreasonable that they won’t accept a hack fix (however safe it may be) - that car is going to be sold to someone once the lease expires, they just can’t take the risk I would read this as a cautionary tale against renting your cars. If you can’t buy i…

Mate, your talking about a brass nipple being threaded into a broken plastic part to replace a plastic reducer that was [probably] poorly ultrasonic welded in place. What I see in the article is a common sense repair. Anyone who turns a wrench is laughing at the Tesla fanboy pearl clutching over this. Not an attack on your post btw, just a general statement that every Tesla owner comes out of the cracks in these post…

The Gen 1 Tesla Roadster was a license built Lotus Elise. The Lotus Elise had a Toyota motor, the Tesla was all electric, what other Toyota parts are you talking about? Did they also use Toyota accessories?

Re: Tesla’s $16k Quote for a $700 Fix Is Why Right to Repair Matters

#316

Post by cartoonworld » Tue, Jul 13, 2021, 1:47 AM UTC

DannyBee wrote: post #292

cartoonworld wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The right move is to route the coolant lines away from harmful road debris or add a shield or deflector. If the coolant line is the protection for the case, that sounds like a big mistake. The owner is indeed lucky that the bunge snapped off rather than crack the case, spilling gallons of toxic coolant all over the place and resting his un-burnt flesh in the failsafes of this battery monitoring system. It really smac…

Look. I will never own or consider a Tesla given what i've seen, and will happily take them to task. But i think this is a bit far. It's pretty common in ICE vehicles for the oil pan to be easily damaged by road debris, and the oil it spills is more toxic than coolant. In particular, the Tesla's use glycol for cooling, which is not that bad to spill (certainly better than most oils). So while certainly not better tha…

Man, that reminds me of the time I cracked an oil pan in my old MB 190e. I was going to a trail head for a planned hike, and the vehicle markings were....ambiguous.

I followed some tracks between two trees, but a wheel dropped into a pothole in the dirt, bottoming out right over a big ass rock which nicked the side of the pan, cracking it wide open. It can and does happen.

Oil pans are metal and can usually handle a gopher or a 2-by-4. They are also usually guarded by a subframe to which the motor mounts attach.

I don't know that Tesla uses glycol, which is pretty darn poisonous, I was under the impression it was HOAT, which is much less so, still not good, but who knows.

I can see from the video there is a large plate that was supposed to shield this part, that the debris worked its way around, yanking on the poorly moored cooling line, cracking the coolant port. On consideration this looks a lot more like a fluke, so your point is well taken.

Re: Tesla’s $16k Quote for a $700 Fix Is Why Right to Repair Matters

#317

Post by gameswithgo » Tue, Jul 13, 2021, 1:47 AM UTC

namdnay wrote: post #3

A bit of a stretch to classify this under right to repair.. if you rent a car from tesla, it’s going to be up to tesla to choose how it’s repaired. And it doesn’t seem unreasonable that they won’t accept a hack fix (however safe it may be) - that car is going to be sold to someone once the lease expires, they just can’t take the risk I would read this as a cautionary tale against renting your cars. If you can’t buy i…

In the usa there is established law that a car maker cannot void the warranty just because of a repair or modification you did. They have to prove that what you did actually caused the problem. For minor issues dealers will often screw you anyway, but when facing a 16k bill you could certainly lawyer up a little

Re: Tesla’s $16k Quote for a $700 Fix Is Why Right to Repair Matters

#318

Post by vdqtp3 » Tue, Jul 13, 2021, 1:50 AM UTC

cptskippy wrote: post #92

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Sure, except Tesla has a history of performing just as janky repairs on their cars themselves. Its even stated in the article.[0] Drilling and tapping a broken off plastic barb for a brass (or steel, or plastic, or whatever) barb is a very, very, very, standard procedure in any trade where you repair things. I wouldn't call this hack. Appealing to authority is fashionable. People will poo-poo anything if they think…

> Because the service writer couldn't get that part separately so they chose to quote for the whole assembly rather than ask the tech who did the diagnosis if there's any other options. This makes it sound like the part in question could have been easily replaced. The assembly in this case was the seal pack that isn't intended to be serviced. Even if they could have ordered the plastic coolant line, the removal and t…

> it would have been easier to replace the pack AND then part out the old pack

That's what Tesla should have done. Charge $16k for a new pack including a $15k core charge. They aren't out the cost of the whole pack and the customer doesn't get screwed over.

Re: Tesla’s $16k Quote for a $700 Fix Is Why Right to Repair Matters

#319

Post by codeddesign » Tue, Jul 13, 2021, 1:51 AM UTC

crmrc114 wrote: post #303

namdnay wrote: post #3

A bit of a stretch to classify this under right to repair.. if you rent a car from tesla, it’s going to be up to tesla to choose how it’s repaired. And it doesn’t seem unreasonable that they won’t accept a hack fix (however safe it may be) - that car is going to be sold to someone once the lease expires, they just can’t take the risk I would read this as a cautionary tale against renting your cars. If you can’t buy i…

Mate, your talking about a brass nipple being threaded into a broken plastic part to replace a plastic reducer that was [probably] poorly ultrasonic welded in place. What I see in the article is a common sense repair. Anyone who turns a wrench is laughing at the Tesla fanboy pearl clutching over this. Not an attack on your post btw, just a general statement that every Tesla owner comes out of the cracks in these post…

This is a leased vehicle, meaning that “right to repair” is not associated at all unless you wish to break the lease agreement and owe BIG $$$. All leases are essentially like initial warranties. The dealer has to fix or your warranty goes invalid.

This is a mute argument.

Re: Tesla’s $16k Quote for a $700 Fix Is Why Right to Repair Matters

#320

Post by gameswithgo » Tue, Jul 13, 2021, 1:52 AM UTC

Meph504 wrote: post #233

passivate wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>that they won’t accept a hack fix (however safe it may be) - that car is going to be sold to someone once the lease expires, they just can’t take the risk But why are you calling it a hack fix? Also, why would a competent third-party repair shop be "risky"? A customer should be free to pick out an experienced and competent repair-shop just the way they currently do for their cars. And if they don't want to, they can…

> why would a competent third-party repair shop be "risky"? because of terminology like this "Electrified Garage also notes that the cooling system doesn't get anywhere near as hot as an internal combustion engine, and it's not likely that it would either, given that the operating temperature for most lithium-ion batteries is well below 60 degrees Celsius." So this repair is made on anecdotal observation of ideal con…

As someone who has a great deal of experience working on high performance cars and racing them, I feel your characterization of this fix as a “hack” is ridiculous. People do more questionable fixes and ferraris and lambos regularly.