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Organic and regenerative agriculture are revitalizing rural Montana economies

montanafreepress.org

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Re: Organic and regenerative agriculture are revitalizing rural Montana economies

#221

Post by andscoop »

tastyfreeze wrote: post #108
iorek_dev wrote: post #8

For those who are interested in the topic of soil reconstruction and balance in nature, some more sources: Documentary on the Loess plateau in China: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjLV_aVRUmQ Talk on the Caledonian Forest: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAGHUkby2Is Talk on using the "herd effect" in Africa: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7pI7IYaJLI A talk presenting a realistic view on soil reconstruction, what…

That Gabe Brown video convinced me a couple years ago. I agree, it is the most convincing soil health video and I share it every chance I get.

His book, Dirt To Soil, is what convinced me. It was the first time in a while that I felt optimism about the future of the planet. It also changed how I viewed the morals of meat consumption.

Re: Organic and regenerative agriculture are revitalizing rural Montana economies

#222

Post by andscoop »

kickout wrote: post #79
jeffreyrogers wrote: post #57

What is the best criticism of regenerative ag? Everything I see about it is so positive that it seems crazy everyone hasn't switched. Are there really no downsides and it's just institutional inertia/caution holding everyone back?

Replies to your questions are good. I'd say the yield downside is the most glaring. Farmers really can't afford a have a self-imposed 'bad' year while they try to adopt new practices. Bankers and lenders (which farmers rely on for operating loans might not even approve--IDK). It absolutely takes some trial and error as no 2 farms are the same. This also hurts testing things out in a smaller scale on your farm. You ne…

I don’t think the yield downside is a given though. Gabe Brown sees >20% more yield than his counties average using regenerative methods. I want to see more data but I’m hopeful that as regenerative ag practices begin to be improved and honed across the United States, the yield problem will go away.

https://www.csuchico.edu/regenerativeagriculture/demos/gabe-...

Re: Organic and regenerative agriculture are revitalizing rural Montana economies

#223

Post by tomrod »

emilywolfe wrote: post #194

Emily Wolfe here, I’m the person who wrote this story. As I plan the second story in the series, which will be about new markets related to organic and regenerative, I’m curious to know a couple of things: -isn’t this a tech/VC blog? How is it that so many of you are so interested in and knowledgeable about agriculture? -what about this story made you want to discuss it here? Looking forward to learning more!

tech/VC aren't solely about the quick buck, but about expressing the desires of the technologist or VC in how they engage in the world.

As many of us neo2k hackers are getting to ages where we think about future generations and even legacy, the stranglehold of corporatism on agriculture R&D and production is very worrying - and your blog is quite informative.

Re: Organic and regenerative agriculture are revitalizing rural Montana economies

#224

Post by andscoop »

louis___ wrote: post #67
jeffreyrogers wrote: post #57

What is the best criticism of regenerative ag? Everything I see about it is so positive that it seems crazy everyone hasn't switched. Are there really no downsides and it's just institutional inertia/caution holding everyone back?

It's more that it requires to leave the mainstream system, because the fertilizer and pesticides that destroyed your soil are the money-making machines of "Big Ag" corporations. Regenerative ag will not make you very rich either, so you have not much money to invest in lobbying activities, to go against the flow.

> Regenerative ag will not make you rich…

How do you figure? Regenerative ag is still relatively new, and it’s practices are being honed. Idk what you define as rich but I’d venture to guess that Joel Salatin and Gabe Brown are extremely wealthy.

Re: Organic and regenerative agriculture are revitalizing rural Montana economies

#225

Post by musesum »

emilywolfe wrote: post #194

Emily Wolfe here, I’m the person who wrote this story. As I plan the second story in the series, which will be about new markets related to organic and regenerative, I’m curious to know a couple of things: -isn’t this a tech/VC blog? How is it that so many of you are so interested in and knowledgeable about agriculture? -what about this story made you want to discuss it here? Looking forward to learning more!

Health and climate mitigation. Trace elements of Glyphosate in food supply. Intensive grazing to reverse desertification (as per Alan Savory) and carbon sequestration.

A 2015 USDA study shows organic corn fetching 3X conventional. But, higher variable costs. What if lowering costs with new techniques changes the roughly equal profit margins to a 2X? That's the sort of questions I and folks like me like to ask.

Aside from that, my housemate sold a cattle ranch in Montana and his family is one of the largest wild rice growers in California before the drought. Now, converting some of that parched land to Solar. Seems like a terrible waste. What if you could do both?

Re: Organic and regenerative agriculture are revitalizing rural Montana economies

#226

Post by emilywolfe »

emilywolfe wrote: post #194

Emily Wolfe here, I’m the person who wrote this story. As I plan the second story in the series, which will be about new markets related to organic and regenerative, I’m curious to know a couple of things: -isn’t this a tech/VC blog? How is it that so many of you are so interested in and knowledgeable about agriculture? -what about this story made you want to discuss it here? Looking forward to learning more!

ok great. Makes sense. And people have definitely moved to Montana during the pandemic! Another q:

What new markets in this space are interesting to you?

Re: Organic and regenerative agriculture are revitalizing rural Montana economies

#227

Post by Jeff_Brown »

andscoop wrote: post #216
knuthsat wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's really not that much meat in regenerative agriculture. Given the current per capita consumption of meat in kg, a regenerative ag operation could never accomplish that. Reducing to 4-30kg of meat per capita per year seems impossible. No one can even accomplish that with ruminants. That's why there's so much chicken everywhere, because accomplishing that with ruminants is near impossible, so chicken is advertis…

Do you have sources for this? I used to think similarly, but now I’m not so sure. Gabe Brown, the author of Dirt to Soil, changed my outlook on animals place in a healthy ecosystem. On his farmland he puts about 700k lbs of cattle on 1acre of land at a time, rotating those cattle frequently across 40 acres. He claims this practice has been an integral part of his regenerative ag method. http://brownsranch.us/grazing/

I don't think that math works out. That works out to around 6 square meters per cow. Google says cows eat about 160 pounds of grass per day.

Re: Organic and regenerative agriculture are revitalizing rural Montana economies

#228

Post by mulmen »

emilywolfe wrote: post #194

Emily Wolfe here, I’m the person who wrote this story. As I plan the second story in the series, which will be about new markets related to organic and regenerative, I’m curious to know a couple of things: -isn’t this a tech/VC blog? How is it that so many of you are so interested in and knowledgeable about agriculture? -what about this story made you want to discuss it here? Looking forward to learning more!

Agriculture is the next frontier of big tech. The last several decades decades have seen continuous improvements in labor effectiveness with automated equipment. Ag is big business, big data and in the next decade (IMHO) will be big tech.

I believe ycombinator even invested in a few ag tech startups.

Re: Organic and regenerative agriculture are revitalizing rural Montana economies

#229

Post by systemvoltage »

emilywolfe wrote: post #226
emilywolfe wrote: post #194

Emily Wolfe here, I’m the person who wrote this story. As I plan the second story in the series, which will be about new markets related to organic and regenerative, I’m curious to know a couple of things: -isn’t this a tech/VC blog? How is it that so many of you are so interested in and knowledgeable about agriculture? -what about this story made you want to discuss it here? Looking forward to learning more!

ok great. Makes sense. And people have definitely moved to Montana during the pandemic! Another q: What new markets in this space are interesting to you?

More than the new markets, it would be great to get "boots on the ground" information of real honest no bullshit understanding of the pain points of farmers, agricultural industry in general. Sometimes markets are not well defined or don't exist but taking a fundamental look at problems is fascinating. This information is hard to come by and people like yourself can help.

Re: Organic and regenerative agriculture are revitalizing rural Montana economies

#230

Post by seltzered_ »

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #183
reedjosh wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article. > They also lease land to neighboring ranchers, whose grazing cattle aerate the soil with their hooves and add organic matter and nutrients via manure. Meat can and should be a part of regenerative ag. I recently visited a family friend's place/farm. A year ago, the soil was the typical cracked dry light tan clay ground that I have in my yard. It's quite typical in Oregon. This time, the soil was a…

I do work at a farm and around farms that use regenerative grazing. It works great. However as a vegan my hope is that we eventually let animals graze and simply do not kill and consume them. One could argue “the meat is there” but that meat is beings with a heart and a mind. When I see the grazing animals with their babies in toe, I think about how they will be separated and the pain the mothers will go through. We…

Thanks for sharing this sentiment, vegetarian here who's been trying to read what I can about ecosystem restoration and such and it's really led to more balanced view around animals/meat consumption.

From your experience is it possible (in a farm context of a fixed amount of land) to just let the larger animals graze in such a way that they can live their natural lifespan? or are there concerns of species overpopulation (and ecosystem degradation) akin to deer on poorly managed land?

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