That's just such a terrible design. Surely it was designed that way to save a few cents but wow. Would be interested to see how Munro would redesign that (then again he likes removing parts so he's probably think this was clever).
Tesla’s $16k Quote for a $700 Fix Is Why Right to Repair Matters
171–180 of 564 posts
Re: Tesla’s $16k Quote for a $700 Fix Is Why Right to Repair Matters
#172Earlier quoted context omitted.
When I rent a car I am not responsible for repairs. If I am on the hook for the repair bill I should get a choice in how the car is repaired. I can buy whatever tires I want for a leased car. If Tesla wants to make these kinds of demands then the repair should be part of the warranty and priced in to the car. > I would read this as a cautionary tale against renting your cars. If you can’t buy it, don’t! This holds tr…
> The fact that cars depreciate seems like the best reason to "rent" them. Like any other depreciating asset, the renter charges the rentee(sp?) the depreciation anyway, plus a small profit. You appear to be under the impression that renting is better; this cannot be correct. The rent for any asset is ($COST_OF_PRODUCT + $COST_OF_ADMIN + $PROFIT). How do you figure that it's cheaper to pay those additional costs than…
> You appear to be under the impression that renting is better; this cannot be correct.
Except that it obviously can be correct by virtue of being a common financial construct. Your formula is meaningless to a person making a choice between buying a renting. There’s seller profit in both situations but it’s irrelevant to the purchaser. A fundamental assumption of our economic system is that value can be created in parallel with profit.
If I always want a car that is less than five years old then a lease is a great option. It’s a matter of what fulfills my needs for the least money. That could be buying or leasing depending on my needs.
Re: Tesla’s $16k Quote for a $700 Fix Is Why Right to Repair Matters
#173Earlier quoted context omitted.
When I rent a car I am not responsible for repairs. If I am on the hook for the repair bill I should get a choice in how the car is repaired. I can buy whatever tires I want for a leased car. If Tesla wants to make these kinds of demands then the repair should be part of the warranty and priced in to the car. > I would read this as a cautionary tale against renting your cars. If you can’t buy it, don’t! This holds tr…
> The fact that cars depreciate seems like the best reason to "rent" them. Like any other depreciating asset, the renter charges the rentee(sp?) the depreciation anyway, plus a small profit. You appear to be under the impression that renting is better; this cannot be correct. The rent for any asset is ($COST_OF_PRODUCT + $COST_OF_ADMIN + $PROFIT). How do you figure that it's cheaper to pay those additional costs than…
Hiring a car can be significantly cheaper if there are odd tax laws in the country the car is in.
For example, if there is heavy tax on new cars, but no tax on cars over 6 months old, then you add more terms to your addition: + $DEPRECIATION - $EXTREME_TAX
Re: Tesla’s $16k Quote for a $700 Fix Is Why Right to Repair Matters
#174Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Sure, except Tesla has a history of performing just as janky repairs on their cars themselves. Its even stated in the article.[0] Drilling and tapping a broken off plastic barb for a brass (or steel, or plastic, or whatever) barb is a very, very, very, standard procedure in any trade where you repair things. I wouldn't call this hack. Appealing to authority is fashionable. People will poo-poo anything if they think…
Brass is downright professional. https://www.jbweld.com/product/j-b-weld-professional-size
Agreed. The brass part is obviously higher quality, but I also wonder if it was intentionally plastic so that it would breakaway instead of damaging the battery in an event like this. If that was a design decision (not a cost decision), it would actually be a better idea to stick with the jb weld plastic part than go with brass.
Re: Tesla’s $16k Quote for a $700 Fix Is Why Right to Repair Matters
#175Earlier quoted context omitted.
Nor will they sell you parts to repair it.
As far as I can tell other manufacturers don't do any direct-to-consumer sales either - Honda seems to basically be a middleman to selling you parts that your local dealership has in-stock.
That is because, for historical reasons, they are generally not legally able to. Tesla has actually done great work pushing back on the requirements many states had to franchise automobile sales. However, almost every existing manufacturer has the entire country divided up into franchises and it is a legal nightmare to unpack it.
Re: Tesla’s $16k Quote for a $700 Fix Is Why Right to Repair Matters
#176Earlier quoted context omitted.
> When I rent a car I am not responsible for repairs. You certainly are, in most places, if you crash it into something. This wasn't a failure of the manufacturer's materials or workmanship, it was a collision loss.
It's a stretch to describe road debris hitting the undercarriage of a car a "collision". You should expect a vehicle to be engineered so that small objects hitting the undercarriage don't cause significant damage. Making subassemblies replaceable in part rather than in whole is definitely a bonus. When they're only replaceable in whole, I do consider it deficient engineering, especially if a small change would make i…
> It's a stretch to describe road debris hitting the undercarriage of a car a "collision".
The insurance that covers such an event is literally called collison insurance.
Re: Tesla’s $16k Quote for a $700 Fix Is Why Right to Repair Matters
#177Earlier quoted context omitted.
> But why are you calling it a hack fix? Because there is no official process to repairing/replacing parts within the pack.
What motivates Tesla to write one? Woudn't they rather contiue selling battery packs for 16k?
And now you’ve arrived at “Right to Repair”
Re: Tesla’s $16k Quote for a $700 Fix Is Why Right to Repair Matters
#178Earlier quoted context omitted.
> When I rent a car I am not responsible for repairs. You certainly are, in most places, if you crash it into something. This wasn't a failure of the manufacturer's materials or workmanship, it was a collision loss.
It's a stretch to describe road debris hitting the undercarriage of a car a "collision". You should expect a vehicle to be engineered so that small objects hitting the undercarriage don't cause significant damage. Making subassemblies replaceable in part rather than in whole is definitely a bonus. When they're only replaceable in whole, I do consider it deficient engineering, especially if a small change would make i…
From Merriam-Webster:
Definition of collide
intransitive verb 1 : to come together with solid or direct impact
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/collide
Its a stretch to describe road debris coming together with solid impact to the undercarriage a collision?
Re: Tesla’s $16k Quote for a $700 Fix Is Why Right to Repair Matters
#179Earlier quoted context omitted.
When I rent a car I am not responsible for repairs. If I am on the hook for the repair bill I should get a choice in how the car is repaired. I can buy whatever tires I want for a leased car. If Tesla wants to make these kinds of demands then the repair should be part of the warranty and priced in to the car. > I would read this as a cautionary tale against renting your cars. If you can’t buy it, don’t! This holds tr…
> The fact that cars depreciate seems like the best reason to "rent" them. Like any other depreciating asset, the renter charges the rentee(sp?) the depreciation anyway, plus a small profit. You appear to be under the impression that renting is better; this cannot be correct. The rent for any asset is ($COST_OF_PRODUCT + $COST_OF_ADMIN + $PROFIT). How do you figure that it's cheaper to pay those additional costs than…
For car dealers and manufacturers, the math is more complicated than that--the lease can be a loss leader, which may be useful to the dealer or manufacturer for any number of reasons.
In the early 2000s it was not unusual for leases on slow-selling models to have negative interest rates (and that's with a realistic residual), not sure if that is still the case today. I certainly don't ever remember seeing a negative interest rate on non-lease financing offers, not sure why.
Re: Tesla’s $16k Quote for a $700 Fix Is Why Right to Repair Matters
#180This is a design flaw. I wonder what other shameful design decisions were put in place to cut corners.
Kind of glad I canceled a Tesla pre-order. I really hope other EV companies are learning from Tesla’s mistakes. From the lack of customer service from a maintenance aspect to poor repairability, that sort of reputation will stick with a company for a very long time.
Going to run my current ICE to the ground until the 4-5th generation of EVs roll out.