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Tesla’s $16k Quote for a $700 Fix Is Why Right to Repair Matters

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Re: Tesla’s $16k Quote for a $700 Fix Is Why Right to Repair Matters

#101

Post by kube-system »

stevev wrote: post #31
namdnay wrote: post #3

A bit of a stretch to classify this under right to repair.. if you rent a car from tesla, it’s going to be up to tesla to choose how it’s repaired. And it doesn’t seem unreasonable that they won’t accept a hack fix (however safe it may be) - that car is going to be sold to someone once the lease expires, they just can’t take the risk I would read this as a cautionary tale against renting your cars. If you can’t buy i…

Hack fix are subjective. That same logic can be applied to any car makes. Repairs are not a black box. They’re not using duck tape. A fix is a fix

If you take an engineered system and apply a non-engineered fix, I'd say it's a hack, even if it works. Did this person do a metallurgical/chemical engineering analysis before changing the material type? OEMs do this on their cooling systems.

No, they used a standard off-the-shelf fitting out of convenience.

Will it work? Probably. Is it a compromise in terms of engineering design and testing? absolutely. Mind you, Tesla owns this car, and they probably would like to keep it in the condition in which they lent it out.

Re: Tesla’s $16k Quote for a $700 Fix Is Why Right to Repair Matters

#102

Post by passivate »

namdnay wrote: post #3

A bit of a stretch to classify this under right to repair.. if you rent a car from tesla, it’s going to be up to tesla to choose how it’s repaired. And it doesn’t seem unreasonable that they won’t accept a hack fix (however safe it may be) - that car is going to be sold to someone once the lease expires, they just can’t take the risk I would read this as a cautionary tale against renting your cars. If you can’t buy i…

>that they won’t accept a hack fix (however safe it may be) - that car is going to be sold to someone once the lease expires, they just can’t take the risk

But why are you calling it a hack fix? Also, why would a competent third-party repair shop be "risky"? A customer should be free to pick out an experienced and competent repair-shop just the way they currently do for their cars. And if they don't want to, they can take it to the dealership like they would have anyway.

Right to repair is an extra _option_ for the consumer. Manufacturers are taking it away for future guaranteed service income (ala subscription model). In my opinion, it has absolutely nothing to do with "risk".

> that car is going to be sold to someone once the lease expires, they just can’t take the risk

How is the risk different from the existing leased model in any industry?

Re: Tesla’s $16k Quote for a $700 Fix Is Why Right to Repair Matters

#103

Post by mindslight »

elsonrodriguez wrote: post #83
mindslight wrote: post #2

Oof, that's not even a $700 repair. What's pictured looks more like a $200 repair. The rest is straight profit for Electrified Garage, for having Tesla knowledge at this point in time. Personally, I would have used a plastic fitting so that if it were to get hit again, the fitting would take the damage instead of the part that has been threaded into. The driving force being this story seems to be that the owner didn'…

Google says a Model 3 takes about 5 gallons of G48 anti freeze. That's $100 in just fluids. High end mechanics can charge about $150/hr. Let's say: 1 hour to dismantle and diagnose 1 hour to cut/drill/tap 1 hour to fill and bleed the system 1 hour for whatever diagnostics are needed to verify that the ECU is happy and the car drives well. Sounds like $700 to me.

Good point on the antifreeze. I think you're overestimating the time though. And the premium between $80/hr generic shop rate and $150/hr "high end mechanic" is exactly what I was trying to highlight.

Re: Tesla’s $16k Quote for a $700 Fix Is Why Right to Repair Matters

#104

Post by fshbbdssbbgdd »

mulmen wrote: post #38
namdnay wrote: post #3

A bit of a stretch to classify this under right to repair.. if you rent a car from tesla, it’s going to be up to tesla to choose how it’s repaired. And it doesn’t seem unreasonable that they won’t accept a hack fix (however safe it may be) - that car is going to be sold to someone once the lease expires, they just can’t take the risk I would read this as a cautionary tale against renting your cars. If you can’t buy i…

When I rent a car I am not responsible for repairs. If I am on the hook for the repair bill I should get a choice in how the car is repaired. I can buy whatever tires I want for a leased car. If Tesla wants to make these kinds of demands then the repair should be part of the warranty and priced in to the car. > I would read this as a cautionary tale against renting your cars. If you can’t buy it, don’t! This holds tr…

It really just comes down to math. A lease has a “residual” which is the expected value of the car at lease end. You pay for the difference between the new value and the residual with your lease payment. It’s essentially like buying a car with an installment loan, except you’ve pre-arranged to sell the car after 3 years at a determined price. There’s also a “money factor” which is the implied interest rate you are getting in the lease. It turns out that Tesla leases have a high money factor, which makes them a bad deal.

Tesla lessors pay for depreciation the same way owners do, but the lease is effectively bundled in with a 6% APR loan, which is a lot worse than people with good credit would pay for a new car auto loan.

Re: Tesla’s $16k Quote for a $700 Fix Is Why Right to Repair Matters

#105

Post by throwawayboise »

ethbr0 wrote: post #90
throwaway0a5e wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Sure, except Tesla has a history of performing just as janky repairs on their cars themselves. Its even stated in the article.[0] Drilling and tapping a broken off plastic barb for a brass (or steel, or plastic, or whatever) barb is a very, very, very, standard procedure in any trade where you repair things. I wouldn't call this hack. Appealing to authority is fashionable. People will poo-poo anything if they think…

Brass is downright professional. https://www.jbweld.com/product/j-b-weld-professional-size

Yep I had a plastic barb break off my coolant reservoir tank. I reamed it out with a twist drill, used epoxy to glue in a new barb I got at the hardware store, and it's been good since then (over 2 years now).

Re: Tesla’s $16k Quote for a $700 Fix Is Why Right to Repair Matters

#106

Post by kube-system »

brigade wrote: post #87
1123581321 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That makes this even more surprising if so, because a policy on that car without collision should’ve raised a gigantic red flag with his carrier.

My suspicion is that he did have collision and comprehensive, thought “obviously damage from road debris falls under my no-fault comprehensive,” then found out that it doesn’t unless it never actually touched the road. And either no one told him that it has to be a collision claim, or he just decided not to bother with a $700 collision claim after he got an independent estimate (and complain to the author that debris…

This is exactly it. The guy doesn't want a $16,000 at-fault claim on his record.

Re: Tesla’s $16k Quote for a $700 Fix Is Why Right to Repair Matters

#107

Post by webinvest »

smnrchrds wrote: post #50
raz32dust wrote: post #20

When a company like Apple says that only their app store can run on iPhones, HN crowd usually sides with Apple, with the justification that "It is a free market. People can buy another phone if they don't like it." Why doesn't the same principle apply here? If your car company does not offer the right to repair, then buy another car. What is the difference? Both are instances of big companies gating access to their d…

In my view, the real reason is that many HNers work for Apple, but not that many HNers work for Tesla.

In TFA, the Tesla is rendered inoperable. An IOS AltStore doesn’t contain much other than ROMs. Even if it contains more, no one apparently can browse the altstore app lists until they go through the effort of installing it —- so no one cares. Also HN has tons of Tesla fanboys.

Re: Tesla’s $16k Quote for a $700 Fix Is Why Right to Repair Matters

#108

Post by gamegoblin »

ethbr0 wrote: post #90
throwaway0a5e wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Sure, except Tesla has a history of performing just as janky repairs on their cars themselves. Its even stated in the article.[0] Drilling and tapping a broken off plastic barb for a brass (or steel, or plastic, or whatever) barb is a very, very, very, standard procedure in any trade where you repair things. I wouldn't call this hack. Appealing to authority is fashionable. People will poo-poo anything if they think…

Brass is downright professional. https://www.jbweld.com/product/j-b-weld-professional-size

I started woodworking as hobby a few years ago, and used some epoxy here and there to fill voids in wood. But after having epoxy on hand all the time, I realized just how absurdly useful it is for fixing little things around the house. Our microwave handle barb broke off. Epoxy it back on. Dropped a potted plant and the pot broke. Epoxy it back together. Etc.

There are super ergonomic and foolproof products that I feel like everyone should have around in that one kitchen drawer that accumulates all the miscellaneous stuff: https://www.jbweld.com/product/j-b-weld-syringe

Re: Tesla’s $16k Quote for a $700 Fix Is Why Right to Repair Matters

#109

Post by amf12 »

ricardobeat wrote: post #71
olyjohn wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The benefit of buying it is that you can drive it well after it's paid off. Leasing and trading up all the time means you're constantly making never-ending payments. It's not that hard to sell your car when the time comes to get rid of it.

Those never-ending payments are covering depreciation. Unless you keep your car for 10+ years and it’s one of the rare models that holds value after that, you’re not much better off buying it.

Eh, that depends. Typically car depreciation is not linear. Depreciation is higher in the initial years and the % depreciation reduces each year. Buying a car, keeping it for 5 years and selling it off might be cheaper than leasing a new one every 3 years.

Re: Tesla’s $16k Quote for a $700 Fix Is Why Right to Repair Matters

#110

Post by judge2020 »

belval wrote: post #44
mschild wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, except Tesla has a history of performing just as janky repairs on their cars themselves. Its even stated in the article.[0] Another question to consider is why the repair is 16k. Does is actually cost Tesla that much or do they just quote that much because they are realistically the only ones who can fix it so they can charge the price? Driving around with a shoddy fix on a combustion engine can be just as dang…

> Another question to consider is why the repair is 16k. Does is actually cost Tesla that much or do they just quote that much because they are realistically the only ones who can fix it so they can charge the price? The quote is to replace the whole battery pack so I really doubt that they are making a profit on it since it's one of the actually expensive part of the car. As GP pointed out this is hardly right to re…

> on your car.

As OP pointed out, it wasn't even OP's car - it was a lease, not a loan. The risk of allowing mechanics to do quick fixes is too high for them.

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