Tesla’s $16k Quote for a $700 Fix Is Why Right to Repair Matters • Hacker News Board

Re: Tesla’s $16k Quote for a $700 Fix Is Why Right to Repair Matters

#61

Post by cartoonworld » Mon, Jul 12, 2021, 9:11 PM UTC

mindslight wrote: post #2

Oof, that's not even a $700 repair. What's pictured looks more like a $200 repair. The rest is straight profit for Electrified Garage, for having Tesla knowledge at this point in time. Personally, I would have used a plastic fitting so that if it were to get hit again, the fitting would take the damage instead of the part that has been threaded into. The driving force being this story seems to be that the owner didn'…

This repair is R&D that is definitely worth the price.

There's no way this is a $200 repair, that Tesla took up a bunch of shop time and their specialized technician for the better part of a day, carefully researching and installing this repair fitting. If you are charging $25/hr labor you are out of business.

If the repair fails, they will likely take it back and improve the fix.

Your plastic mystery fitting would likely not be compatible and cause a leak of whatever coolant is running around in there.

Lastly, road hazard insurance didn't cover any repair. Tesla doesn't do this kind of repair as well, leaving the only recourse replacing the entire part.

Re: Tesla’s $16k Quote for a $700 Fix Is Why Right to Repair Matters

#62

Post by rantwasp » Mon, Jul 12, 2021, 9:11 PM UTC

yawaworht1978 wrote: post #53

I would agree, they are notoriously slow to repair, too expensive (ask the insurance companies) and use blackmail via software. And the people who buy the cars are knowingly or not knowingly supporting that. Probably not buying would be more efficient than passing laws with loopholes.

ding ding ding. if you don’t punish a bad behavior (ie not buying their crappy cars) they really have no incentive to change

Re: Tesla’s $16k Quote for a $700 Fix Is Why Right to Repair Matters

#63

Post by yarky » Mon, Jul 12, 2021, 9:12 PM UTC

mulmen wrote: post #38

namdnay wrote: post #3

A bit of a stretch to classify this under right to repair.. if you rent a car from tesla, it’s going to be up to tesla to choose how it’s repaired. And it doesn’t seem unreasonable that they won’t accept a hack fix (however safe it may be) - that car is going to be sold to someone once the lease expires, they just can’t take the risk I would read this as a cautionary tale against renting your cars. If you can’t buy i…

When I rent a car I am not responsible for repairs. If I am on the hook for the repair bill I should get a choice in how the car is repaired. I can buy whatever tires I want for a leased car. If Tesla wants to make these kinds of demands then the repair should be part of the warranty and priced in to the car. > I would read this as a cautionary tale against renting your cars. If you can’t buy it, don’t! This holds tr…

Not the OP but "If you can’t buy it, don’t!" might mean not owning/renting it. Either buy it or don't even think about it.

Re: Tesla’s $16k Quote for a $700 Fix Is Why Right to Repair Matters

#64

Post by olyjohn » Mon, Jul 12, 2021, 9:12 PM UTC

mulmen wrote: post #38

namdnay wrote: post #3

A bit of a stretch to classify this under right to repair.. if you rent a car from tesla, it’s going to be up to tesla to choose how it’s repaired. And it doesn’t seem unreasonable that they won’t accept a hack fix (however safe it may be) - that car is going to be sold to someone once the lease expires, they just can’t take the risk I would read this as a cautionary tale against renting your cars. If you can’t buy i…

When I rent a car I am not responsible for repairs. If I am on the hook for the repair bill I should get a choice in how the car is repaired. I can buy whatever tires I want for a leased car. If Tesla wants to make these kinds of demands then the repair should be part of the warranty and priced in to the car. > I would read this as a cautionary tale against renting your cars. If you can’t buy it, don’t! This holds tr…

The benefit of buying it is that you can drive it well after it's paid off. Leasing and trading up all the time means you're constantly making never-ending payments. It's not that hard to sell your car when the time comes to get rid of it.

Re: Tesla’s $16k Quote for a $700 Fix Is Why Right to Repair Matters

#65

Post by inlikealamb » Mon, Jul 12, 2021, 9:12 PM UTC

raz32dust wrote: post #20

When a company like Apple says that only their app store can run on iPhones, HN crowd usually sides with Apple, with the justification that "It is a free market. People can buy another phone if they don't like it." Why doesn't the same principle apply here? If your car company does not offer the right to repair, then buy another car. What is the difference? Both are instances of big companies gating access to their d…

Does Tesla include this information in the sales pitch? the contract? I doubt it.

If they don't, then it's a bit deceptive. I'd fully expect to be able to buy OEM parts for any car I buy, and to have the car repaired at an independent shop. If you're defying the norm it's your responsibility to inform your customers.

Re: Tesla’s $16k Quote for a $700 Fix Is Why Right to Repair Matters

#66

Post by giobox » Mon, Jul 12, 2021, 9:15 PM UTC

belval wrote: post #44

mschild wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, except Tesla has a history of performing just as janky repairs on their cars themselves. Its even stated in the article.[0] Another question to consider is why the repair is 16k. Does is actually cost Tesla that much or do they just quote that much because they are realistically the only ones who can fix it so they can charge the price? Driving around with a shoddy fix on a combustion engine can be just as dang…

> Another question to consider is why the repair is 16k. Does is actually cost Tesla that much or do they just quote that much because they are realistically the only ones who can fix it so they can charge the price? The quote is to replace the whole battery pack so I really doubt that they are making a profit on it since it's one of the actually expensive part of the car. As GP pointed out this is hardly right to re…

Update: reread the article, customer has the 50kWh rear wheel drive car. That means he’s been offered a battery at 320 bucks per kWh - at that price, of course tesla are profiting from the sale. If you have the 75 kWh car the bill is presumably then north of $20k…

We can speculate pretty easily on how profitable that $16k pack is.

Let’s assume the customer has the largest pack Tesla fit to a model 3 (~75kwh). He has just been offered a new one at approx 213 dollars per kWh.

While only Tesla know for certain, it’s widly assumed in 2021 this costs Tesla around 140 dollars a kWh.

Aside from a couple of hoses, high and low voltage connectors, the battery is held to the bottom of the car by just 12 bolts if memory serves. If you have an appropriate workshop (like Tesla!) the labour costs will be minimal.

I’d have to disagree and suggest Tesla are likely making a typical car industry margin on the replacement battery.

Re: Tesla’s $16k Quote for a $700 Fix Is Why Right to Repair Matters

#67

Post by Pyramus » Mon, Jul 12, 2021, 9:15 PM UTC

namdnay wrote: post #3

A bit of a stretch to classify this under right to repair.. if you rent a car from tesla, it’s going to be up to tesla to choose how it’s repaired. And it doesn’t seem unreasonable that they won’t accept a hack fix (however safe it may be) - that car is going to be sold to someone once the lease expires, they just can’t take the risk I would read this as a cautionary tale against renting your cars. If you can’t buy i…

If you watch the video [1] Chad (former Tesla repair technician) clearly states it's the issue is due to cost effectiveness not whether the car is under lease.

It's also not constrained the nose that was damaged here - whenever a part of the battery pack is damaged (could be a single cell) Tesla will replace the whole battery pack but not the part.

I believe Chad calls it "assembly replacement". It's not cost effective to train staff, have facilities and parts, and do the (dis-)assembly. Which is exactly why we need right to repair.

[1] https://youtu.be/vVSw3KSevEc?t=1415

Re: Tesla’s $16k Quote for a $700 Fix Is Why Right to Repair Matters

#68

Post by wnevets » Mon, Jul 12, 2021, 9:16 PM UTC

Pyramus wrote: post #67

namdnay wrote: post #3

A bit of a stretch to classify this under right to repair.. if you rent a car from tesla, it’s going to be up to tesla to choose how it’s repaired. And it doesn’t seem unreasonable that they won’t accept a hack fix (however safe it may be) - that car is going to be sold to someone once the lease expires, they just can’t take the risk I would read this as a cautionary tale against renting your cars. If you can’t buy i…

If you watch the video [1] Chad (former Tesla repair technician) clearly states it's the issue is due to cost effectiveness not whether the car is under lease. It's also not constrained the nose that was damaged here - whenever a part of the battery pack is damaged (could be a single cell) Tesla will replace the whole battery pack but not the part. I believe Chad calls it "assembly replacement". It's not cost effecti…

> It's not cost effective to train staff, have facilities and parts

Surely its more cost effective for the customer that requires this repair?

Re: Tesla’s $16k Quote for a $700 Fix Is Why Right to Repair Matters

#69

Post by 1123581321 » Mon, Jul 12, 2021, 9:17 PM UTC

brigade wrote: post #30

1123581321 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He didn’t have comprehensive at all. Comprehensive is cheap with a deductible of a few hundred. People don’t forgo it unless they’re driving a junker. Reading the comments on the article, it sounds like the lack of comprehensive might have been a mistake during transferring policies between cars. If so, that’s a brutal consequence of an easy misclick or misstatement without a double check.

The first half is strictly true though - comprehensive doesn’t cover road debris; you have to file under collision and unlike comprehensive the premiums are more expensive and claims are solely your fault for the damage, increasing them further. Leases still near universally require collision coverage though, because they want damage fixed.

That makes this even more surprising if so, because a policy on that car without collision should’ve raised a gigantic red flag with his carrier.

Re: Tesla’s $16k Quote for a $700 Fix Is Why Right to Repair Matters

#70

Post by majormajor » Mon, Jul 12, 2021, 9:17 PM UTC

Pyramus wrote: post #67

namdnay wrote: post #3

A bit of a stretch to classify this under right to repair.. if you rent a car from tesla, it’s going to be up to tesla to choose how it’s repaired. And it doesn’t seem unreasonable that they won’t accept a hack fix (however safe it may be) - that car is going to be sold to someone once the lease expires, they just can’t take the risk I would read this as a cautionary tale against renting your cars. If you can’t buy i…

If you watch the video [1] Chad (former Tesla repair technician) clearly states it's the issue is due to cost effectiveness not whether the car is under lease. It's also not constrained the nose that was damaged here - whenever a part of the battery pack is damaged (could be a single cell) Tesla will replace the whole battery pack but not the part. I believe Chad calls it "assembly replacement". It's not cost effecti…

Does Tesla then have a separate workflow that re-uses the components of the "broken" 16K battery pack? Seems like that is necessary in order for spending an extra 15K in parts to be worth more than training some more people to repair them...

but then in that case, the sticker price of the repair also doesn't seem like it should be 16k, since Tesla's taking the old battery and capturing that side of the value too.