Live data from Hacker News

Scenarios in which Tesla FSD Beta 9.0 fails

twitter.com

101–110 of 502 posts

Re: Scenarios in which Tesla FSD Beta 9.0 fails

#101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait till you read the stats and see videos of what humans driving cars regularly do!

Still, an autopilot should aim to be a peer with the best drivers, not with mediocre or bad drivers.

It's a limited beta with the goal of discovering error cases.

Re: Scenarios in which Tesla FSD Beta 9.0 fails

#102
post #85
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aviation and space are a very, very different problem space from surface street navigation, because they rely, almost entirely, on "nothing else being there." We've had good automation in aviation for decades. It doesn't handle anything else in the way very well at all, and while there's some traffic conflict avoidance stuff, it's a violent "Oh crap!" style response, nothing you actually want to get anywhere close to…

> There's nothing it really has to look at and understand that it can't easily get from some basic sensor data - speed, attitude, location, etc. Self landing rockets are simple, it's not rocket science, duh! Everyone and my grandma has one.

In terms of "understanding the environment around you such that you can land a booster stage," it's not a particularly hard problem. The challenges are about designing a booster stage that can handle the flipping and reentry, then figuring out the details of how to stick the landing with several times your empty weight as your minimum thrust.

"Where am I, and what's between me and my destination?" isn't the hard part, as it is with surface driving.

Re: Scenarios in which Tesla FSD Beta 9.0 fails

#103
post #4

I doubt that autonomous driving will work in the next couple of years without infrastructure adjustments. We built roads for cars to replace horses, we will need to built roads for autonmous cars to replace human driven cars.

> need to built roads for autonmous cars

Not any more friendly than they are to humans. AI driving needs to handle the general case. Otherwise a road that has a lapse in autonomous-friendlyness could be catastrophic.

Re: Scenarios in which Tesla FSD Beta 9.0 fails

#104
post #16

It appears Tesla FSD just ignores things it doesn't understand, which is really dangerous in a production vehicle.

This is what the automated Uber vehicle[1] that struck and killed a pedestrian did, as well. Despite picking her up via sensors and the ML model, it was programmed to ignore them.

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/19/technology/uber-driverles...

Re: Scenarios in which Tesla FSD Beta 9.0 fails

#105
post #11

I don't understand how something this broken is allowed to operate on public roads. If I drove like Tesla's FSD seems to based on the videos I've seen, I'd be pulled out of my car and arrested on (well founded) suspicions of "driving while hammered." After a decade of work, it's not capable of doing much beyond "blundering around a city mostly without hitting stuff, but pay attention, because it'll try to hit the mos…

Because Elon doesn't operate under the same jurisdiction as us common people. Try calling out a random diver a 'pedo', or perform the most cynical kind of market manipulation (then laughing to the SEC at their face) and your outcome will be very different. It's Animal Farm all over.

> Elon doesn't operate under the same jurisdiction as us common people.

Elon doesn't get any special treatment. You can do all these things as well if you're willing to expend resources when faced with repercussions. My suspicion though is society will give you more slack if you dramatically increase access to space for your nation state or make credible progress against a global ecological problem humanity is facing.

> It's Animal Farm all over

Don't get the Animal Farm reference as we're not talking about some sort of proto-communist utopia. Everyone is playing in the same sandbox.

Re: Scenarios in which Tesla FSD Beta 9.0 fails

#106
post #4

I doubt that autonomous driving will work in the next couple of years without infrastructure adjustments. We built roads for cars to replace horses, we will need to built roads for autonmous cars to replace human driven cars.

Automated vehicles have existed in industries for years, and they operate like this. Special environments and tracks are set up for the vehicles, and human presence and interference are minimized on the tracks in order to minimize the potential for injury or death.

Re: Scenarios in which Tesla FSD Beta 9.0 fails

#107
post #4

I doubt that autonomous driving will work in the next couple of years without infrastructure adjustments. We built roads for cars to replace horses, we will need to built roads for autonmous cars to replace human driven cars.

Ive been saying this for over a decade: we're working on the wrong problem right now with autonomous vehicles. Their chief obstacle is operating on the roads with humans . They need dedicated infrastructure where only autonomous vehicles operate. Anything short of this will be implemented in very restrictive, small, niche areas and never become the new way most people move around. Tesla and Uber, et al have taken thi…

> I think we'll be on the right track when city planners reclaim some of our current roads and make them available only to autonomous vehicles. They'll need their own garages, highways and streets to operate to fully realize it.

I'd rather subsidize automated electric trolley lines in cities than subsidize exclusive roads for automated personal vehicles.

Re: Scenarios in which Tesla FSD Beta 9.0 fails

#108

Why are there so many comments from seemingly different posters all saying the same thing on this, "I don't understand why humans are allowed to drive cars"? It feels kinda... culty? Or too similar to be a coincidence. It honestly probably is but these Tesla posts always bring out those types and it confuses me. Humans kill humans, do we want machines to start doing it on the road automatically now too?

Witness some brands of motorcycle that are overpriced for such dated technology, yet have a line of people telling you how great they are. Hell, just read the replies in that Twitter thread. Oh, you thought it would be all "how are these allowed on the road?", did you? No, the narrative-supporting is strong in this one. When one spends that kind of money, some have a hard time admitting that their purchase wasn't all it was advertised to be.

Re: Scenarios in which Tesla FSD Beta 9.0 fails

#109

I watched a human driver in a BMW weave at 90 mph through traffic yesterday, swerving back and forth between lanes inches from other peoples cars. If Tesla can make a car that's even 1% less dangerous than human drivers, that could be thousands of deaths avoided every year. Humans should not be allowed to drive cars on public streets.

If Tesla can build a system that can do what that BMW driver did, I'll buy one tomorrow. As it is, it looks like the things have trouble just staying in their lane.
Post reply on HN