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Organic and regenerative agriculture are revitalizing rural Montana economies

montanafreepress.org

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Re: Organic and regenerative agriculture are revitalizing rural Montana economies

#121

Post by roldie »

evtothedev wrote: post #115

If you're a UI/UX designer, and this area excites you, please drop me a line. We're tackling this exact problem at Yard Stick ( https://www.useyardstick.com/ ) - developing a new way to measure soil carbon that is fast, accurate and affordable, with backing by ARPA-E and in collaboration with the Soil Health Institute. Later this week, I'm going to post a contract-to-hire position. In the meantime, email me at evan@u…

I'm not sure how much time I could commit, but at the very least I could help spread the word.

What kind of involvement are you looking for design-wise?

Re: Organic and regenerative agriculture are revitalizing rural Montana economies

#122

Post by [deleted] »

debacle wrote: post #116
saalweachter wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly? My biggest concern about it is that half its advocates say crazy things. For instance, down-thread we got the line: "[Paul Wheaton] believes that in a decade the soil will be so rich in organic matter with healthy microbial activity (with no chemical history) could produce food that cures cancer. I believe that in an environment where human body is not weakened by the constant bombardment of chemical compou…

Paul Wheaton is a grifter, petty tyrant, and mini Hubbard who has built a cult around himself. He bans anyone from the permaculture subreddit who disagrees with him, which is why there are multiple off-shoot subreddits, including one specifically dedicated to his malfeasance which broaches into criminality.

[deleted]

Re: Organic and regenerative agriculture are revitalizing rural Montana economies

#123

Post by [deleted] »

devonbleak wrote: post #118
kickout wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sweet, there is only approximately 300 million acres of cropland in the United States alone. Sun == free, rain == free How does indoor ag plan on scaling up for anything other than super high margin vegetables and spices when their competitor (outdoor ag) has no cost associated with sun or rain? Not even to mention soil. edit: I like indoor/vertical ag a lot (when applied correctly) When people try to propose produci…

By providing predictability/consistency/efficiency. Yes you end up paying for things that are otherwise free, but those free versions are at the mercy of nature and nature isn't exactly getting more predictable/consistent. You can also create highly efficient watering systems where evaporation is nearly nonexistent and nutrients are easily distributed meaning you're making way better use of that water. And let's be h…

[deleted]

Re: Organic and regenerative agriculture are revitalizing rural Montana economies

#124

Post by [deleted] »

devonbleak wrote: post #118
kickout wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sweet, there is only approximately 300 million acres of cropland in the United States alone. Sun == free, rain == free How does indoor ag plan on scaling up for anything other than super high margin vegetables and spices when their competitor (outdoor ag) has no cost associated with sun or rain? Not even to mention soil. edit: I like indoor/vertical ag a lot (when applied correctly) When people try to propose produci…

By providing predictability/consistency/efficiency. Yes you end up paying for things that are otherwise free, but those free versions are at the mercy of nature and nature isn't exactly getting more predictable/consistent. You can also create highly efficient watering systems where evaporation is nearly nonexistent and nutrients are easily distributed meaning you're making way better use of that water. And let's be h…

[deleted]

Re: Organic and regenerative agriculture are revitalizing rural Montana economies

#125

Post by debacle »

beaconstudios wrote: post #119
debacle wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paul Wheaton is a grifter, petty tyrant, and mini Hubbard who has built a cult around himself. He bans anyone from the permaculture subreddit who disagrees with him, which is why there are multiple off-shoot subreddits, including one specifically dedicated to his malfeasance which broaches into criminality.

This guy has control of the permaculture subreddit? That's awful. Permaculture is a great and important movement. Does anybody know why movements rooted in holism keep getting taken over by people like this? It seems like every movement that starts out by wanting to incorporate high-level perspectives ends up getting burdened with the crystal-spinners and magic-cancer-curers of the world.

Every system is corrupted by those willing to leverage the most from it.

Re: Organic and regenerative agriculture are revitalizing rural Montana economies

#126

Post by splistud »

asimpletune wrote: post #105
kickout wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Replies to your questions are good. I'd say the yield downside is the most glaring. Farmers really can't afford a have a self-imposed 'bad' year while they try to adopt new practices. Bankers and lenders (which farmers rely on for operating loans might not even approve--IDK). It absolutely takes some trial and error as no 2 farms are the same. This also hurts testing things out in a smaller scale on your farm. You ne…

What if the measurement wasn’t yield but total nutrition?

Yield is an important measurement though. Nutrition is a fine metric, but some things grown in permaculture are not nutritive. They may grow nitrogen-fixers, shade plants, fodder, etc. These don't provide 'yield', but reduce outside inputs.

The most important thing is to change how you think about yield. Yield/acre needs to take into account how much outside inputs are involved (trucked in fertilizers, mechanical inputs, etc).

It's absolutely correct to measure how we're doing. It's tricky when the units of measurement are not the same. It's harder still where there are so many types of soil/climate conditions and so many types of output to measure. But we can't just ignore output if we want to improve or give prospective adopters some idea of risk (they are literally betting their farms on it afterall).

Re: Organic and regenerative agriculture are revitalizing rural Montana economies

#127

Post by blueyes »

greenie_beans wrote: post #44
blueyes wrote: post #24

Montanan here: This is true. One of the regenerative crop types are pulses (lentils, chick peas), and MT produces a lot. https://www.ndsu.edu/pubweb/pulse-info/resources-pdf/Growing... The state often appears in stories about agriculture in precarious environments (See Jared Diamond's "Collapse" for one example.) Montana is largely a semi-arid desert, especially over the 2/3's of the state that are northern Great Pla…

where would one go to read about the cherry crops on the flathead? (such a lovely area!)

For news about the cherry harvests you could go to the Daily Interlake, a newspaper published in Kalispell, or the Flathead Beacon:

https://dailyinterlake.com/news/2021/jul/03/growers-expect-e...

https://flatheadbeacon.com/?s=cherry

Re: Organic and regenerative agriculture are revitalizing rural Montana economies

#128

Post by durkie »

jeffreyrogers wrote: post #55
durkie wrote: post #46

Is there an economic argument to be made for increasing the amount of money spent in the local economy? I often hear it cited as a benefit in situations like this, and it has a certain feel-good quality to it, but instinctively it feels like it means people pay higher prices: if you're buying seed from the local seed & feed, it's almost certainly more expensive than if you buy it from XYZ megacorp.

Maybe not a strictly economic one, but probably a socioeconomic one: that keeping more money in local communities helps those communities to be better places to live. Whether that is true or not, I don't know. It's definitely true that corporate concentration has been increasing and that many of these communities are in decline.

There are definitely plenty of towns I've been to in rural America (north GA) that are clearly hollow shells of their former selves. And it's way more fun and interesting to be in a place that does have a thriving local economy. The socioeconomic benefits are clear. I'm just wondering if theres a way to frame it in economic terms, or if everything about resiliency, more local jobs, etc. are basically all "externalities".

Re: Organic and regenerative agriculture are revitalizing rural Montana economies

#129

Post by kickout »

devonbleak wrote: post #118
kickout wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sweet, there is only approximately 300 million acres of cropland in the United States alone. Sun == free, rain == free How does indoor ag plan on scaling up for anything other than super high margin vegetables and spices when their competitor (outdoor ag) has no cost associated with sun or rain? Not even to mention soil. edit: I like indoor/vertical ag a lot (when applied correctly) When people try to propose produci…

By providing predictability/consistency/efficiency. Yes you end up paying for things that are otherwise free, but those free versions are at the mercy of nature and nature isn't exactly getting more predictable/consistent. You can also create highly efficient watering systems where evaporation is nearly nonexistent and nutrients are easily distributed meaning you're making way better use of that water. And let's be h…

I'd say that future is far more distant than you're willing to entertain.

California's central valley is a primer candidate not so much because of geographic concerns, but economic ones. Almost everything grown in the Valley is high margin. Those indoor ag systems need to get their water from somewhere so if if aquifiers and fresh waters supplies are dwindling, that will affect indoor ag too.

Growing stuff indoors, at any scale has proven harder than people thought. My experiences have mostly revolved around pests being more present in indoor setups (thrips, white flies) and you end up spraying more pesticides indoors than you would outdoors. Indoor systems are susceptible to the same climate variability as outdoor systems. A storm knocks out power for an extended period will kill an indoor crop too, or the storm itself may destroy the building.

I'm pro indoor ag. It needs more investment, but it needs the right investment, not this pie-in-the-sky mindset that we shouldn't grow anything outdoors and indoor ag will save us all.

Re: Organic and regenerative agriculture are revitalizing rural Montana economies

#130

Post by evtothedev »

roldie wrote: post #121
evtothedev wrote: post #115

If you're a UI/UX designer, and this area excites you, please drop me a line. We're tackling this exact problem at Yard Stick ( https://www.useyardstick.com/ ) - developing a new way to measure soil carbon that is fast, accurate and affordable, with backing by ARPA-E and in collaboration with the Soil Health Institute. Later this week, I'm going to post a contract-to-hire position. In the meantime, email me at evan@u…

I'm not sure how much time I could commit, but at the very least I could help spread the word. What kind of involvement are you looking for design-wise?

Ideally full time. As you might imagine, the space is technical & complicated, and I suspect that delivering elegant designs would require quite some time to get up to speed.
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