Why are there so many comments from seemingly different posters all saying the same thing on this, "I don't understand why humans are allowed to drive cars"? It feels kinda... culty? Or too similar to be a coincidence. It honestly probably is but these Tesla posts always bring out those types and it confuses me. Humans kill humans, do we want machines to start doing it on the road automatically now too?
Scenarios in which Tesla FSD Beta 9.0 fails
51–60 of 502 posts
Re: Scenarios in which Tesla FSD Beta 9.0 fails
#52Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is flying a helicopter on Mars arrogance? Launching reusable space launch vehicles that boost back to the landing site arrogance? I don't believe so. These are engineering challenges to be surmounted, just as safe robotic vehicles are a challenge, and its reasonable (I'd argue) for us as a species to drive towards solutions (no pun intended). Silicon Valley isn't going to suddenly become less arrogant, but that doesn…
Aviation and space are a very, very different problem space from surface street navigation, because they rely, almost entirely, on "nothing else being there." We've had good automation in aviation for decades. It doesn't handle anything else in the way very well at all, and while there's some traffic conflict avoidance stuff, it's a violent "Oh crap!" style response, nothing you actually want to get anywhere close to…
I don't disagree with you. I believe we're arguing between "can't be solved" versus "it's going to take a long time to solve." I'm stating I fall in the latter camp, and advocating for stronger regulation and investment in the space.
Re: Scenarios in which Tesla FSD Beta 9.0 fails
#53Scary set of videos. Is Tesla using Marylanders to train FSD?
Re: Scenarios in which Tesla FSD Beta 9.0 fails
#54I watched a human driver in a BMW weave at 90 mph through traffic yesterday, swerving back and forth between lanes inches from other peoples cars. If Tesla can make a car that's even 1% less dangerous than human drivers, that could be thousands of deaths avoided every year. Humans should not be allowed to drive cars on public streets.
You know there's a very old and working solution to this specific problem, it's calling the police and reporting the license plate numbers so that the driver is punished for reckless behavior. Technology made it much easier via dashcams.
Re: Scenarios in which Tesla FSD Beta 9.0 fails
#55Why are there so many comments from seemingly different posters all saying the same thing on this, "I don't understand why humans are allowed to drive cars"? It feels kinda... culty? Or too similar to be a coincidence. It honestly probably is but these Tesla posts always bring out those types and it confuses me. Humans kill humans, do we want machines to start doing it on the road automatically now too?
I think the idea is, if humans were held to the standards machines are, we wouldn't let them drive.
If you offered me a car that drove itself, and statistically, it killed people at the same rate as humans, but let me not have to drive, I'd take that. Nobody everybody agrees.
Re: Scenarios in which Tesla FSD Beta 9.0 fails
#56Earlier quoted context omitted.
Safely operating a motor vehicle via a steering wheel, accelerator, and brake (and sometimes clutch and gearshift) is a completely different skillset than monitoring an automated system in realtime. Novel skill requirements include: interpreting FSD UI, anticipating common errors, recognizing intent behind FSD actions, & remaining vigilant even during periods of autonomous success.
The history of human machine interactions makes it clear that if you have the human as the primary control (in the main decision loop, operating things) and the automation watching over their shoulders, it works pretty well. The opposite - where the automation handles the common case, with the human watching, simply does not work. It's not worked in aviation, it's not worked in industrial systems, it's not worked in…
> "I'll do 99.90% of it correctly, you watch and catch the 0.1% when I screw up!" style systems that rely on the human to catch the mistakes shouldn't be permitted to operate in any sort of safety critical environment. It simply doesn't work.
Right, because it actually relies on the human to catch 100% of mistakes _anyway_. The human can already do the 99.90% of it correctly with a reasonable degree of safety.
I wouldn't be surprised if the increased cognitive load on the human in such a system is an actual overall decrease in safety and strictly worse than a human operator alone.
At least with an unreliable system that Tesla demonstrated here.
Re: Scenarios in which Tesla FSD Beta 9.0 fails
#57Re: Scenarios in which Tesla FSD Beta 9.0 fails
#58I don't understand how something this broken is allowed to operate on public roads. If I drove like Tesla's FSD seems to based on the videos I've seen, I'd be pulled out of my car and arrested on (well founded) suspicions of "driving while hammered." After a decade of work, it's not capable of doing much beyond "blundering around a city mostly without hitting stuff, but pay attention, because it'll try to hit the mos…
> I don't understand how something this broken is allowed to operate on public roads. Also out in a rural area. Running out to pickup lunch a few minutes ago, a young man flipped their old pickup truck on its side in an intersection, having hit the median for some reason. I too don't understand how humans are allowed to operate on public roads. Most of them are terrible at it. About 35k people a year die in motor veh…
dinddingding.
Self Driving cars (Tesla; who is faaaar from it, among others) will kill people. But people are shitty drivers on their own; has to start somewhere and Tesla is the first to get anything close to this level in the hands of the general population (kind of, beta program is still limited in release))
Re: Scenarios in which Tesla FSD Beta 9.0 fails
#59Why are there so many comments from seemingly different posters all saying the same thing on this, "I don't understand why humans are allowed to drive cars"? It feels kinda... culty? Or too similar to be a coincidence. It honestly probably is but these Tesla posts always bring out those types and it confuses me. Humans kill humans, do we want machines to start doing it on the road automatically now too?
Tesla fan here: The Tesla echo chamber is very real in online communities (here, reddit, etc.).
I personally enjoy playing with the progress of autopilot over the years and I'd be sad to see it more restricted.
I understand that it can be unsafe if left unsupervised but in reality I've never met someone who drives like that.
Re: Scenarios in which Tesla FSD Beta 9.0 fails
#60Some of the issues shown in these videos make me wonder about Tesla's strategy of using non-professional driver (customer) data to train FSD. Things like changing lanes at the last second is a thing that (obnoxious) humans do, and would be a bad example to learn from. There might be a lot of subtle garbage in Tesla's dataset.