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Apple threatens UK market exit if court orders 'unacceptable' patent fees

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Re: Apple threatens UK market exit if court orders 'unacceptable' patent fees

#141

Post by sdflhasjd »

ben_w wrote: post #69
sdflhasjd wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course, that's a claim from Apple in response claims of anticompetitive behaviour. I find it difficult to believe, as a mobile developer myself, that 330,000 jobs are being supported by the App Store in any meaningful way.

Sounds about right to me. Fermi estimate: apps-not-abandoned * average-developers-per-app-this-year ~> 2 million apps * 2 developer-months ~> 333,000 developers

UK jobs.

I know "meaningful" isn't well-defined, but more than 1% of the entire UK workforce is not dependent on the App Store (that couldn't be replaced by any other app marketplace)

Re: Apple threatens UK market exit if court orders 'unacceptable' patent fees

#142

Post by rchaud »

Tenoke wrote: post #20
tut-urut-utut wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this case, I'm glad it's actually targeting Apple. There are a bunch of small innovative companies targeted by patent trolls that don't have means of Apple to fight back and actually change the system to be more level-headed. But I'm afraid Apple will not fight for the reform of the patent system, but will just try to protect itself. In which case I don't care about the outcome, since Apple also uses the same pate…

They are literally fighting it with this case, no? Exiting if they fail will also be great as it might become more clear to those who can change the system how much of a detriment it is.

Doesn't seem to be that detrimental in China. Apple always manages to work something out over there.

Re: Apple threatens UK market exit if court orders 'unacceptable' patent fees

#143

Post by saati »

bencollier49 wrote: post #68
benjaminjosephw wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagining a change in the tech landscape isn't that absurd. If there's a vacuum in the market, do you not think there are capable technology startups in the UK that could fill it?

We have tons of opportunities in the UK to build a mobile firm. ARM is based here, for starters. Unfortunately with Brexit it has become fashionable in certain quarters to 'do-down' the UK's capabilities.

Apple only licenses the ARM ISA, ARM core designs are way behind the Apple ones.

Re: Apple threatens UK market exit if court orders 'unacceptable' patent fees

#144

Post by [deleted] »

mjburgess wrote: post #123
michaelt wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why this is being downvoted; compared to the US system, the UK system doesn't implement anywhere near the same amount of separation of powers. As you can read about in sources like [1] While judges in the UK have life tenure and aren't allowed to stand for parliament, judges are constitutionally subordnate to parliament - they can't challenge the validity of acts of parliament. And separation of executiv…

To add to your comment, The executive is staffed by members of the lower house. Until recently the head of the courts were from the upper house . So the lower house provided the executive, and the upper provided the courts. Compared to constitutional systems like the US, the UK is basically still in the same position. There is no "constitution" that the legal system forces parliament to adhere to. Our courts simply e…

[deleted]

Re: Apple threatens UK market exit if court orders 'unacceptable' patent fees

#145

Post by dantheman »

mjburgess wrote: post #14

Let's be clear. This is a patent troll company engaged in anti-innovation rent-seeking behaviour. They're seeking billions in payouts and provide zero innovation, research, development, etc. Just because it's targeting Apple doesn't make it right. Companies of this type should be illegal. A patent is a government-sponsored monopoly which shouldn't be "pooled" by "patent companies" whose only purpose is to use the sta…

Patents shouldn't exist.

Re: Apple threatens UK market exit if court orders 'unacceptable' patent fees

#146

Post by dantheman »

simonh wrote: post #132
ip26 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole point of the patent program is to give you a boost in using the technology (to encourage you to come up with it in the first place) A research program that only produces patents for patent trolls seems like a useless research program.

That is no the whole point, and certainly hasn't been going back to the 18th century at least. It is routine for patent holders to license their patents to manufacturers for production. That would not be possible if inventors had to make the product for commercial sale by themselves. It would render novel inventions by independent inventors untenable. Only big corporations with manufacturing resources would ever be a…

Your facts are completely false, and in fact it's easier to bring things to market than it's ever been.

Watts held back progress significantly and steam engine development was hampered by his and others patents until the expired. The steam engine would have been built to pump water out of mines whether patents existed or not.

Re: Apple threatens UK market exit if court orders 'unacceptable' patent fees

#147

Post by ben_w »

sdflhasjd wrote: post #141
ben_w wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds about right to me. Fermi estimate: apps-not-abandoned * average-developers-per-app-this-year ~> 2 million apps * 2 developer-months ~> 333,000 developers

UK jobs . I know "meaningful" isn't well-defined, but more than 1% of the entire UK workforce is not dependent on the App Store (that couldn't be replaced by any other app marketplace)

Ah, I missed that. That does make a difference, and I could only justify it in the unlikely event of a decent percentage of those apps being for businesses specifically dependent on iOS apps in particular rather than mobile phones and websites in general.

Re: Apple threatens UK market exit if court orders 'unacceptable' patent fees

#148

Post by rasz »

tut-urut-utut wrote: post #16
mjburgess wrote: post #14

Let's be clear. This is a patent troll company engaged in anti-innovation rent-seeking behaviour. They're seeking billions in payouts and provide zero innovation, research, development, etc. Just because it's targeting Apple doesn't make it right. Companies of this type should be illegal. A patent is a government-sponsored monopoly which shouldn't be "pooled" by "patent companies" whose only purpose is to use the sta…

In this case, I'm glad it's actually targeting Apple. There are a bunch of small innovative companies targeted by patent trolls that don't have means of Apple to fight back and actually change the system to be more level-headed. But I'm afraid Apple will not fight for the reform of the patent system, but will just try to protect itself. In which case I don't care about the outcome, since Apple also uses the same pate…

Apple is super pro patents, they never go for patent invalidation. Case in point they got sued by S3 for S3TC, despite S3TC being stolen Apple QuickTime Road Pizza patent https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26758884, and caved in without much fight.

Re: Apple threatens UK market exit if court orders 'unacceptable' patent fees

#149

Post by OJFord »

arcturus17 wrote: post #81
bb101 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, a random dude from Essex designed the original iMac, iPod and most Apple devices thereafter.

But Americans capitalized on it, and it’s not a coincidence.

Using a British chip architecture.

I don't think a sudden Apple competitor is at all likely to appear either, but not from any country, nothing really significantly making it more or less likely from the USA or UK (or Germany or Canada or ...) IMO.

With the exception I suppose that perhaps it is more likely from China than anywhere, public perception really soured but you could imagine Huawei (or Xioami or whatever) phones could've gotten popular. (They can never seem to get fonts and branding 'right' though? I don't understand why they don't hire 'western' branding consultants, even dirt cheap students, just to get some feedback on the way things look. It wouldn't take much to be able to charge a lot more for the obviously identifiable tat on Amazon (and also all over AliExpress).)

Re: Apple threatens UK market exit if court orders 'unacceptable' patent fees

#150

Post by denton-scratch »

mjburgess wrote: post #126
denton-scratch wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In any of the British jurisdictions, neither parliament nor the government can dismiss judges. Nor can anyone else. If they displease the government, then they might not be chosen to head lucrative judicial inquiries - I think that's the only sanction that government can inflict on them. Neither government nor parliament can "reverse" a patent decision. Government and parliament have been known to "censure" (criticis…

> neither parliament nor the government can dismiss judges This is wholly untrue. Parliament can do what it pleases, including disestablish the judiciary and the executive.

You're right, it can do what it pleases; it has been known to behead a monarch.

But it still can't dismiss a judge, because Parliament doesn't employ the judges.

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